sturmbird
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Jun 21, 2012 13:51:45 GMT -5
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Post by sturmbird on Jan 13, 2018 19:36:52 GMT -5
Kind of a stupid question, but did the Brits repaint their Shermans in WWII? Or were they simply the standard O.D. green? gary
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joelsmith
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Post by joelsmith on Jan 13, 2018 23:05:05 GMT -5
IIRC, the Lend-Lease Shermans were delivered on OD. Fireflies were repainted SCC-15 after conversion. To my untrained eye, especially in B/W photography, SCC-15 and OD are very similar in presentation. However this does not apply to US supplied vehicles in the North African Theater which were repainted. Hope this helps, Joel.
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sturmbird
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Post by sturmbird on Jan 14, 2018 1:06:23 GMT -5
IIRC, the Lend-Lease Shermans were delivered on OD. Fireflies were repainted SCC-15 after conversion. To my untrained eye, especially in B/W photography, SCC-15 and OD are very similar in presentation. However this does not apply to US supplied vehicles in the North African Theater which were repainted. Hope this helps, Joel. found a Sherman V from Asuka in the pile out in the garage yesterday. Every British Sherman I've seen looked a little greener than O.D. to me, but that also could be me. Yet to add insult to injury, I thought the Brits were the only users of the Sherman V. Turns out the U.S. used them as well. Gary
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joelsmith
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Post by joelsmith on Jan 14, 2018 9:38:04 GMT -5
Yup, they were used in CONUS for training.
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sturmbird
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Post by sturmbird on Jan 14, 2018 14:37:42 GMT -5
I think I'll do an Irish Guards version gary
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joelsmith
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Post by joelsmith on Jan 14, 2018 15:53:32 GMT -5
From Market Garden?
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sturmbird
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Post by sturmbird on Jan 15, 2018 3:03:15 GMT -5
same unit, but Normandy gary
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sturmbird
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Post by sturmbird on Jan 15, 2018 14:51:03 GMT -5
Thought a lot about the Market Garden battles, and seems like I have some photos of them doing their ill fatted road march. Might go that route instead. gary
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joelsmith
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Post by joelsmith on Jan 15, 2018 17:37:38 GMT -5
Either choice is a good one Gary. The Shermans used in "A Bridge Too Far" are painted very accurately and can be used for reference.
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sturmbird
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Post by sturmbird on Jan 15, 2018 22:21:06 GMT -5
Either choice is a good one Gary. The Shermans used in "A Bridge Too Far" are painted very accurately and can be used for reference. never thought about the movie, but Ryan's book is a good read. Be quite a job converting a figure to look like Horricks! Chukka boots and a brown leather vest! gary
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joelsmith
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Post by joelsmith on Jan 16, 2018 2:50:15 GMT -5
The Bronco Dingo armoured car came with a nice figure of Michael Caine.
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sturmbird
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Post by sturmbird on Jan 16, 2018 14:30:42 GMT -5
The Bronco Dingo armoured car came with a nice figure of Michael Caine. I have that kit along with either the Humbler or Staghound. Been awhile since I've looked at them. Horricks looks nothing like Caine! That was an operation doomed from the get go! They should have jailed everybody that planned it. gary
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joelsmith
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Post by joelsmith on Jan 16, 2018 15:42:30 GMT -5
Don't forget it was a Montgomery idea which should have given everybody pause from the start. and the CG of the Polish Airborne troops said it was a "Bridge Too Far"!
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moramarth
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Post by moramarth on Jan 16, 2018 20:28:31 GMT -5
Michael Caine played J.O.E. "Joe" Vandeleur (Michael Byrne played his cousin Giles Vandeleur; they were both Battalion commanders in the Irish Guards). Horrocks was portrayed (very accurately) by Edward Fox, and the two became friends. Horrocks was one several participants in the original operation who served as advisors on the film hence it's reputation for authenticity. However, there was some criticism of Ryan O'Neal's depiction of James Gavin, and particularly of Dirk Bogarde's version of F.A.M. "Boy" Browning. The latter was always somewhat controversial, but it was the use of the phrase "Well, as you know, I've always thought that we tried to go a bridge too far." as his, and the movie's, last line of dialogue (along with other aspects of Bogarde's performance) made it look to some that he was chiefly responsible for the cock-up. In reality he'd actually said "I think we might be going a bridge too far." during the initial planning, and had other reservations about the British Airborne's task. On the other hand, he did take responsibility for Gavin's failure to prioritise the taking of the Nijmegen bridge, but if anything the frosty relationship with Roy Urquhart (Sean Connery) was downplayed - unofficial reports have the latter laying out Browning after Urquhart's return from Arnhem, but obviously official records can't have two General Officers brawling... There is a rather nice model of Horrocks available: www.riichmodel.com/showpro.asp?ArticleID=818Regards, M
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joelsmith
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Post by joelsmith on Jan 16, 2018 20:46:08 GMT -5
Thank you for the updated information!
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sturmbird
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Post by sturmbird on Jan 17, 2018 1:02:08 GMT -5
Don't forget it was a Montgomery idea which should have given everybody pause from the start. and the CG of the Polish Airborne troops said it was a "Bridge Too Far"! Monty on a good day was a complete dud gary
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moramarth
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Post by moramarth on Jan 17, 2018 6:11:22 GMT -5
Cornelius Ryan used ironically contrasted quotes at the end of his book; in the first, Montgomery insisted that the operation "would have succeeded" given a few breaks here and there, and it might have. The second quote came from Prince Bernhard of The Netherlands: "My country* can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success." To amend my previous post, Ryan drew his title from a remark made by Browning at a final conference at Montgomery's headquarters a week before the operation began (not, as I thought, during the initial planning although I understand he had concerns even then). Montgomery assured Browning Horrock's XXX Corps could reach Arnhem in two days. Browning said, "We can hold it for four, but sir, I think we might be going a bridge too far." It was a prophetic comment rather than the self-serving excuse it appears in the film. Regards, M *He did mean Holland, despite his German birth, ancestry, and having a brother serving in the German Army. In 1944 Prince Bernhard was Commander of the Dutch Armed Forces and had also worked for the Allied War Planning Councils, probably the only former member of the Nazi Party, the SA, and the SS to have done so. He was also a former member of the National Socialist Motor Corps and had a reputation as a reckless driver (he suffered a broken neck and crushed ribs in a car crash in 1938) which extended to other forms of transport, being nearly killed in both boating accidents and aircraft crashes. He subsequently wrote off two Spitfires in landing accidents while flying with the RAF but enjoyed more success with bombers, including flying Liberators against V1 sites. He did so under the nom de guerre of "Wing Commander Gibbs (RAF)" in case he was shot down and then put up against a wall by his former compatriots... Horrocks, Montgomery and Prince Bernhard: amirtabarlegal.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/large.jpg
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