BJ
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Member since: July 2014
Posts: 378
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
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Post by BJ on Apr 3, 2015 17:50:52 GMT -5
Last Night after Cleaning up my Desk, I Decided it was time to start my OPBO build, So I started doing my Research in earnest on the bridge layer, Reading reviews of the Trumpy kit and collecting as much info and Photos I could find in my books and on Google. After Downloading Every Photo I could find on these rare birds I think I may have just about every photo taken. Which I think ends up being about 40. (I know someone will pop up with a new one.. Hopefully) I started sorting them out and trying to put them in Context of version and location they were taken... Yes I know I am an Anal Rivet Counter. While reading Panzer Tracts 14 and Spielbergers PZIV book I have discovered all IVbs were all sent back and refitted to normal PZ IVDs.and according to Panzer Tracts, Four BrL IVc's were used in Russia.. So in light of this discovery I have decided to go ahead and scratch build a Version IVc Bridge Layer for the OPBO build. Since as far as I can find, it has never been done by anyone, so this is going to be a fun build and another First. I will be using the Tristar PZ IVD along with Eduards PE set, the PE fender set from one of my Trumpy kits along with a lot of Styrene and Brass and PZIV interior I have been designing. This is going to be one of those "Once in a Lifetime Builds" so I am going to go nuts on this one. Hopefully I will have it finished by the deadline. Between the drawing below and the few photos I have of the IVc I hope I can make a decent replica of this kit.. So I will be keeping a build log here and on my FB page. www.facebook.com/groups/tankgirl/Thanks for Looking and hope I can hold up the MSC Standard of Quality and Scrutiny
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Post by TRM on Apr 3, 2015 18:15:26 GMT -5
Sweet!! Looking forward to seeing this one come about! Always up for a IV...especially modified!! Bring on the building Billie Jean!!
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Post by Leon on Apr 3, 2015 19:28:15 GMT -5
Count me in Billie Jean ! Looks like this is going to be a cool project.
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legend
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Member since: November 2011
Posts: 577
Nov 30, 2011 13:49:32 GMT -5
Nov 30, 2011 13:49:32 GMT -5
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Post by legend on Apr 4, 2015 1:45:15 GMT -5
Hello I converted a pzkpfw IV kit to this vehicle many years ago and I remember finding it hard to dig out photos back then. It would seem nothing has improved on that front!!! Spiebergers book has the Doyle drawing which is accurate but a lot of detail was got from studying photos with a magnifying glass....no internet or pcs back then. I hope the build goes well. bill
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BJ
Full Member
Member since: July 2014
Posts: 378
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
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Post by BJ on Apr 4, 2015 2:14:41 GMT -5
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Post by kaytermarram on Apr 4, 2015 7:48:40 GMT -5
At the left side of the kit box, are these plastic sheets? This will be the hell of a build, I guess! And I hope to learn some more scratchbuilding tricks from you!
Frank
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legend
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Member since: November 2011
Posts: 577
Nov 30, 2011 13:49:32 GMT -5
Nov 30, 2011 13:49:32 GMT -5
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Post by legend on Apr 4, 2015 9:30:42 GMT -5
the 2 photos of the 'layer on a bridge are the only ones I had from memory. the 1/4 left front view is defo new to me and shows a glaring fault on my build. the brace between the front legs is different to my interpretation. Still it is what it is and there's no changing it now. I don't think I can help you with your build but if you think I can assist I would be more than happy to help out. Cant help with exploding brains though, been there many times!!!
bill
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BJ
Full Member
Member since: July 2014
Posts: 378
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
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Post by BJ on Apr 4, 2015 11:26:18 GMT -5
LOL Yes Kaytermarram, That is a 40 pound stack of Styrene of various thicknesses. I get my styrene from one of my sign suppliers in 48x96inch sheets and just cut it down myself. Costs about 1/100 the price of evergreen and as you can see, I have a few weeks worth.
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Post by deafpanzer on Apr 4, 2015 11:45:02 GMT -5
WHOA!!! Ambitious but fun project! Count me in... good luck!
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Post by kaytermarram on Apr 4, 2015 15:17:26 GMT -5
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Post by Deano on Apr 4, 2015 15:48:32 GMT -5
Its a German funny ! best reason for me to be watching Nice project BJ !
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Post by wbill76 on Apr 4, 2015 19:34:20 GMT -5
This will be fun to follow, looking forward to seeing it come to life BJ!
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BJ
Full Member
Member since: July 2014
Posts: 378
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
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Post by BJ on Apr 5, 2015 16:52:23 GMT -5
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Post by TRM on Apr 5, 2015 17:37:25 GMT -5
Wow, nice seeing the concept in a 3D rendering! Looks great Billie Jean!! Now to make in in the white stuff!!
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BJ
Full Member
Member since: July 2014
Posts: 378
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
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Post by BJ on Apr 5, 2015 17:49:42 GMT -5
LOL..yea I will soon.. I like to draw up my stuff that way it gives me a feel how it all goes together. Then I can just print out the templates. Especially on repetitive parts.. I may Actually just use my laser to cut out the large parts. Or go really silly and make it all out of PE and Brass Square stock
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TomN
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Member since: August 2013
Posts: 143
Aug 21, 2013 19:16:35 GMT -5
Aug 21, 2013 19:16:35 GMT -5
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Post by TomN on Apr 5, 2015 19:14:26 GMT -5
Hi Billiejean Very cool project, I love scratch built models, will be following this. I envy your stack o' styrene....and you have a laser??? Tom
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Post by wing_nut on Apr 5, 2015 19:18:48 GMT -5
A 40lb stack of styrene and a laser? Do I need to be 18 to read this? Sadly that is So not an issu :-/e
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BJ
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Member since: July 2014
Posts: 378
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
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Post by BJ on Apr 5, 2015 20:40:42 GMT -5
Hi Tom, Yes in my day Job, I own and operate a Sign Company So I own and operate a lot of tools not readily available to the normal Joe. Laser Cutter/Engraver,Chemical Milling(PE and Glass)Equipment,Vacuum forming,3D Prototyping Pinter,(Silly String type) Vinyl Cutters, 4 and 5 Axis CnC Routers,Mills and Lathes, Mold Making and Resin Casting. (Injection,Rotary,Spin Vacuum and Pressure) along with a full Sheetmetal Shop. All on a sesame seed. LOL Wing_nut If it was Latex an Silicone we may have to make it an 18 or over but I use those for molds also. Models are my Love and Passion and sometimes I just like to keep it Old school and do it by hand.
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BJ
Full Member
Member since: July 2014
Posts: 378
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
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Post by BJ on Apr 7, 2015 1:43:54 GMT -5
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Post by kaytermarram on Apr 7, 2015 5:16:41 GMT -5
Billiejean, after reading your last post and seeing the pics here I have the idea that modelbuilding has come along a long way...! In former times I would have painted the bridge with ink pens on technical paper, take a metal ruler and a sharp knife and cut off the sheetparts needed, together with my fingers of cause etc., and today? Hell, a very long way! Btw, love your equipment! When I imagine what I could do with my figures with YOUR tools, it might be paradise!
Frank
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reserve
Senior Member
Member since: July 2012
Si vis pacem para bellum
Posts: 2,348
Jul 11, 2012 9:11:45 GMT -5
Jul 11, 2012 9:11:45 GMT -5
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Post by reserve on Apr 7, 2015 8:41:21 GMT -5
Great idea, complex with a lot of repetitive cuts. Should keep you out of mischief for awhile. Will you do the hinged parts from sheet brass for additional durability?
Regards, Mark
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BJ
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Member since: July 2014
Posts: 378
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
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Post by BJ on Apr 7, 2015 10:13:25 GMT -5
LOL, Yes Kaytermarram, When I started my Sign company I started it was with $20 and a paintbrush and went from there.Just like how I learned drafting. T-Square and 3 sided ruler.(70s and 80s BC) Still use that stuff a lot. All that equipment above is just another set of tools in the arsenal, It can't and never will replace creativity.
When it comes to my model building sometimes nothing can beat just a good old knife, Plastic and MEK. The main reason I am drawing it up first in the computer is I want to try out a couple different configurations and I may just make the whole thing from Photo-etch Brass.
Just because it can be done in the computer doesn't always mean it should.
As it goes for your figures.. Nothing can beat a hand sculpted figure. Where the equipment shines in that arena is once you're done. We can scan it in then make it any size you want. (Digital Point ups.) Outside of LIVE RESIN I really have yet to see any full digital figures that have "Character" and even some of those sometimes those look a little to "Stiff" Won't get into the movie stuff as that is a whole different level of Digital Magic and they usually start of with digital scans also.
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Post by kaytermarram on Apr 7, 2015 12:26:02 GMT -5
Yeah, sounds you are old school, too! Great, I think we have "learned from the ground up", all those technics from days so far... But I love it. Figures are my passion in modeling, mostly the strange and weird stuff and I could imagine doing them on a PC some day and print them out. But as long as I can sculpt, this will be the only way I will do them. You mentioned "character" in them. And that is the way to go!
LifeResin did great work (can´t wait to see their upcoming WWII stuff) and first I thought I would love the figures, too. But, after a closer look, I think no, handsculpted stuff is better in there. In my opinion too!
Thanks for the cool reply!
Frank
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BJ
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Member since: July 2014
Posts: 378
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
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Post by BJ on Apr 8, 2015 0:37:29 GMT -5
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Post by TRM on Apr 8, 2015 7:12:32 GMT -5
Very nice progression on the design Billie Jean! Fun to watch you layout the process too! Of course the brass sounded like a cool idea...at least on the framing! But I'm sure you have a well laid plan at hand!! Carry on!!
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BJ
Full Member
Member since: July 2014
Posts: 378
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
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Post by BJ on Apr 9, 2015 23:46:05 GMT -5
Thanks.. I did decide to do it all in brass.. Was machining a few tools I needed/Wanted last night so I can make the parts in brass and tragedy struck... I blew a bearing on my Mills headstock causing it to lock up right in the middle of a machine pass which in turn ended up locking and crashing the bit into the Material which then broke off the primary bolts holding the headstock, causing the Head to fall and jam the Y axis causing that to spin out/break the Planetary gearbox connector... It actually sounds and looks a lot worse then it is.. (Sounded like 2 pounds of C4 went off.) Everything actually worked as I designed,(or properly failed depending on how you look at it) just in case something like this ever happened, Just didn't want to find out all at once Total cost to fix it is $50 for the new bearings which will be here Saturday. Would have been cheaper if I didn't have the parts sent 2 day Mail. So I will get it fixed up Saturday and finish making the tools.. I will post the tools I am making once done. I am making a 8" Miniature Metal Box & Pan Break for bending/breaking Photoetch and Brass sheets so I can bend up all those cross supports and Rails.. I have a few of those Etch tools that use a razor blade and clamp and I hate them so I decided to make my own design based on my 10' Sheetmetal Break, Then Making some punch and Dies so I can punch out all the Lightning Holes in the Brass. I'll Be building Most of the bridge from .008 and .01 Brass Shimstock which roughly scales out to 1/4" (7mm) and 3/8(9mm), and I want to try out a new rivet tool design I've had in my head for sometime so we'll see if that works or not. (My head is a scary place to be most of the time.)
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Post by Leon on Apr 10, 2015 3:14:37 GMT -5
Great looking design on the bridge Billie Jean!
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Scott Fraser
Junior Member
Member since: January 2015
Posts: 70
Jan 8, 2015 8:40:14 GMT -5
Jan 8, 2015 8:40:14 GMT -5
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Post by Scott Fraser on Apr 10, 2015 11:01:43 GMT -5
I can only admire your ingenuity. And I'm very envious of your toolbox. I've used all this equipment at various times but never been able to justify purchasing it. I have to rent time to experiment with stereolithography and I know of no machine shops that would let me play with their CNC milling machines, etc. I do have a friend who runs a chemical milling shop, but he won't have anything to do with model parts anymore. I scared him off running HO scale locomotive parts. They were too delicate for his etching machine.
Anyway, get your machine fixed up and carry on. This looks like a very ambitious project, but armed with the right tools, it should be pretty straightforward.
Regards Scott Fraser
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BJ
Full Member
Member since: July 2014
Posts: 378
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
Jul 24, 2014 12:31:35 GMT -5
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Post by BJ on Apr 10, 2015 11:33:27 GMT -5
Scott, You're welcome anytime to come play with the tools if you're in the neighborhood. I run into the same problem with my PE. I sometimes design beyond my equipments ability. Just can't justify buying equipment for higher resolution.. My minimill is a homemade version except for the Spindle (Sherline) and in reality it wasn't too bad. I think I have around $2k in it but that was over time buying parts here and there. Software is the killer, I have somewhere in the $20k range there, But I can justify that as I use it in the business to run my Big Commercial Router.
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Scott Fraser
Junior Member
Member since: January 2015
Posts: 70
Jan 8, 2015 8:40:14 GMT -5
Jan 8, 2015 8:40:14 GMT -5
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Post by Scott Fraser on Apr 10, 2015 13:07:18 GMT -5
Scott, You're welcome anytime to come play with the tools if you're in the neighborhood. I run into the same problem with my PE. I sometimes design beyond my equipments ability. Just can't justify buying equipment for higher resolution.. My minimill is a homemade version except for the Spindle (Sherline) and in reality it wasn't too bad. I think I have around $2k in it but that was over time buying parts here and there. Software is the killer, I have somewhere in the $20k range there, But I can justify that as I use it in the business to run my Big Commercial Router. I designed and produced aftermarket stuff for years when my kids were young. I was at home with them and used my computer to make pin money, making decals, PE frets and eventually a few masters using rapid prototyping. Another hobby within a hobby. It's very cool stuff, like Captain Kirk's replicator. Anyway, I sourced chemical milling a few years ago and can recommend the place we used. I ran plates in .005 stainless and .010 brass and copper and they turned out very nicely, clean and without any blown plates. This was a while ago, but they were priced competitively and able to take an AutoCAD file to create the tooling. I'll dig out their address if you're interested. It's near Boeing in Seattle. Regards Scott Fraser
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