Future floor polish?

[mark]

Cruising around the internet, I've been reading all about "Future" (or "Pledge Floor Care" as it's now known), and I've come across a few websites that make this stuff sound like a miracle solution for darn near anything!

Making clear parts (windshields, canopies, etc.) look more realistic.....got it.  Haven't tried it, but it makes sense.

One use stated was to airbrush an entire finished model with it.....seems a little extreme to me, I guess.

Use it before decals.....us it over decals....

The more I read, the more this stuff seems too good to be true.

I'm overwhelmed to the point of confusion!

Clearly, I didn't spray floor polish on models as a kid...should I be doing it now?  I guess the obvious answer is "take a junk model and give it a try and see what happens", but I'm curious to know how, where & when you guys use it (if, indeed, you do...)

Anyone care to chime in?

[Tobi]

Future is a, let's say, american phenomenom. It's hard to get outside the US. I was able to source a bottle here in Germany on an exhibition, but for a little fortune. Thus I only use it for restoring clear parts, which I found works pretty good.

Regarding all those miracles, I suppose Future does nothing which couldn't be also reached by other means. But I'm modelling mainly armor, maybe it's a different story with planes.

Nevertheless, here in Europe there are a lot of talented modellers who make extradordinary stunning models (also aircraft) without using Future at all. The only thing that will make a model look better is training and experience, so it's literally up to you.

[JimD]

It's awesomem for dipping clear parts. It will make them look so much better but it can be tricky to keep it from pooling or not having air bubbles.

People have been using it out of an airbrush for a gloss clear coat for many years. I don't like it for that. It works ok but it's way too temperamental for me. It never behaves the same. I chalk it up to climate. Maybe it just doesn't like heat and humidity. A lot of people sweat by it. You may like it. If you can get it to work its a cheap alternative. I just don't belive it's the mystical end all be all that some people do.

[wing_nut]

This was a magic elixir for a very long time. No doubt it's good for all the things mentioned. The all over the model thing was for a gloss base for decals. The guys the love it... REALLY love it. I don't have such a strong love relationship with the stuff. I do use it on canopies. I've used it on tanks when here is only 4 decals on he whole thing, and not putting it over unsealed acrylic. This will soften that paint. It's handy in this case because it does the gloss underneath and the sealer coat all at once. Not handy when your doing a modern fighter with hundreds of tiny stencils.

I've read that some guys don't like it for canopies since there is never a canopy that looks a sapphire watch crystal.

As far as using it over the whole model for decals... you have to try it to see what side of the fence you end up on. there are guys that get the most amazing glass like surfaces. Then there are guys like me that no matter what I do I can't spray that stuff to save my life.

Overall, as a product for modelling it still popular but I think it's lost some of it's shine. Pun absolutely intended.

[moramarth]

Hi,

www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

hope that helps,

M

[wbill76]

It's a useful tool but it all depends on a) what mediums you're working with in terms of paint/finish and b) what you need it to do relative to a.

Since I work primarily in enamels, it's an absolutely essential tool for me when it comes to armor building. It does double duty for helping with decals but also as providing a shield barrier between the cured enamel paint layers and the enamel-based thinner weathering techniques. If the Future wasn't there, I'd end up with a goopy mess every time.

[mark]

Sept 10, 2015 15:17:08 GMT -5 moramarth said:

Hi,

www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

hope that helps,

M

I didn't know how this forum felt about posting links to other sites, so I didn't post it...

...but that's the page that overwhelmed me!

So...let's say I have an airplane, painted in SEA camo with model Master enamel.  Reading that link seems to make me thing I should paint the entire model in floor polish, then apply decals, then re-cover the whole thing in floor polish with talc added to flatten the finish.

Do the decals come out all that much better for such an involved process? 

[JimD]

You absolutely need a gloss coat to keep decals from silvering...unless you want to have a lot of work at least. The gloss makes it easier to move them around the surface and helps keep air from settling in under them. Generally we all gloss coat, decal, and clear with something. You want to protect decals under a clear coat for a number of reasons. You can rub them off or damage them, and weathering mediums will get up under them. No way in Hades I'd add talc to Future and use it as a clear coat. There is absolutely no point to invite that nightmare. Yes, talc is the ingredient in flat coats that makes them flat, but just buy some. No sense in risking any reactions.

But in general, yes, you should gloss for decals and then seal them with something...what is up to you and what you need to do afterwards.

[John Everett]

I agree with everything here so far. I've found my best uses of Future in providing a clear, glossy finish to the wooden bases and edging around dioramas. It is after all a wood polish. The neat thing about Future is that it's water based, essentially just a clear acrylic plastic in liquid form.

I mix Future with a few drops of food coloring (also water-based) and use it as a wood stain. I've produced diorama bases of green, blue, red and yellow with this technique.

Also for clear parts, such as tank periscopes and vision blocks, mix in a drop of blue food coloring with straight Future and it will give that tint to the clear plastic. (Credit to Gary Boxall at PlasticArmour.com for that one.)

[wing_nut]

Jimmy is dead right about the absolute need for a gloss surface for decals. This is a post I put on another forum...

Here's a way to visualize the "why" decals need to go on a gloss surface. Picture that you have a very thin sheet of clear plastic. Now lay that down of a sheet of 100 grit sandpaper. The sheet of plastic will sit on all the high spots of that very rough surface with a lot of air space underneath. If you looked at flat or matte paint under a microscope the surface looks like sandpaper. The clear parts of the decal will look "silvered" from the air space under the decal. Now lay the sheet of clear plastic on a sheet of glass. 2 smooth surfaces facing each other. No air space... no silvering.

[dupes]

I guess I'm one of the "Future for everything" type guys. Use it under and over decals (on all models) and for dipping canopies. Add it to painted headlights to make them glossy. Toss a drop into the bezel on an instrument panel to simulate glass. Heck, you can even use it as clear parts glue!

The ONLY drawback I find with Future is the darkening effect you get on paints - especially the already dark colors (greens, greys, blacks, etc). Can throw off your contrast a bit if you don't compensate for it. Not having had good luck with most other clear/flat combos, I don't know if that's a common problem with all of them.

[mark]

I'm starting to see it....

If I do a flat camo paint job with Model Master enamel, it needs to be "glossed" before I apply decals....and Future works fine to do that.

So paint, then Future, then decals, then....what? What gets sprayed over it all so that it's again flat?

And am I only doing this in the area of the decal, or am I doing this to the entire model?

Thanks guys! These techniques are all new to me!

[JimD]

Some folks just do the spots for decals. This is fine if you have just a couple like on armor. I just do the whole model. It usally looks like this:

primer > paint > gloss coat > decals > gloss coat > panel line washes other weathering > final cear (be it flat, satin, or gloss)

The reason for gloss after decals is twofold:

1) To protect them form weathering and to help level them off. Even the thinnest decals will look raised from the surface so another gloss will help "level" them with the surface.

2) Gloss as opposed to flat is easier for pin washes in panel lines. The enamel will flow better plus it's much easier to remove unwanted excess...that's nearly impossible on flat...which may be your aim. Sometimes a flat coat is used so the weathering "sticks" more.

[mark]

And for gloss, you use Future....right?

Clearly, my first build ( modelerssocialclub.proboards.com/thread/10138/48-monogram-phantom-497-tfs ) leaves a bit to be desired! It was prime > paint > decal > display on a shelf!

Hopefully my next build will be better!

And I have no idea what a "pin wash" is, but I guess that's a thread for another day!

EDIT:  One more question...do you thin Future when airbrushing or can it be sprayed as-is?  If thinned, what do you all find works best? 

[JimD]

I don't use Future as a gloss, no. I use Alclad Auqua Gloss for the most part. You don't need to thin Future to airbrush it. Most don't.

[wbill76]

Sept 11, 2015 9:53:54 GMT -5 mark said:

And for gloss, you use Future....right?

Clearly, my first build ( modelerssocialclub.proboards.com/thread/10138/48-monogram-phantom-497-tfs ) leaves a bit to be desired! It was prime > paint > decal > display on a shelf!

Hopefully my next build will be better!

And I have no idea what a "pin wash" is, but I guess that's a thread for another day!

EDIT:  One more question...do you thin Future when airbrushing or can it be sprayed as-is?  If thinned, what do you all find works best? 

A pin wash refers to using a highly thinned paint mix (usually on the order of 90-95% thinner vs. paint depending) that is applied to raised detail and panel lines to create subtle shadows and make the detail 'pop'. Typically I use a 10/0 pointed brush and, if you've applied a Future (or gloss) coat over the finish, the wash will flow smoothly and use capillary action to gather in the panel line and around the raised detail. It's a very handy technique to have but can be time consuming to apply depending on what you're working on. HTH!

One other thing to note about Future's application. If you airbrush it, it's best done in light 'mist' passes so that it goes on evenly. It's a 'self-levelling' liquid but that doesn't mean it won't collect heavily if you apply it in a single wet/heavy coat for example. It is typically sprayed right out of the bottle with no thinning and at a good PSI. It's also not technically a 'true' gloss like some of the other materials out there...if it were, people would slip and fall all the time on waxed floors and that would be bad for the brand.

[mark]

Sorry for beating this to bits, but my learning curve is pretty steep, having been out of the game for such a very long time!

So here's what I'm hearing...fact check me:

1.) dip a canopy in Future, and you'll get a good look.

2.) decals over paint...bad! Best to clear gloss the model first, then decal, then clear gloss again, then clear flat (if flat is the final desired finish). Future will work for the clear steps, but other...perhaps better....finishes exist, like Alcad Aqua Gloss.

Is that the crux of it?

That said, I'm well experienced (in a bad way) with using non-compatible paints, albeit not in the modeling game. For example, lacquer over enamel will often lead to destruction of the enamel because of the lacquer's solvent content. Latex will go over oils, but not vice versa.

So I'm a little confused by the "modeling community's" seemingly-overlapping use of terms like "acrylic", "lacquer", "enamel", "varnish", etc. when there's a pretty well-established definition to what these terms mean...at least in the world of paint.

And I'm not trying to be pedantic about this; my goal...indeed my only goal...is to prevent the destruction of an almost-finished kit by covering an awesome camo job with a clear coat that ripples up the Model Masters Enamel.

So I guess my question really ought to be "is there a compatibility chart somewhere" that offers up a "yes you can" or "no you can't" guideline?

[wbill76]

Sept 11, 2015 12:04:35 GMT -5 mark said:

Sorry for beating this to bits, but my learning curve is pretty steep, having been out of the game for such a very long time!

So I'm a little confused by the "modeling community's" seemingly-overlapping use of terms like "acrylic", "lacquer", "enamel", "varnish", etc. when there's a pretty well-established definition to these terms mean...at least in the world of paint.

And I'm not trying to be pedantic about this; my goal...indeed my only goal...is to prevent the destruction of an almost-finished kit by covering an awesome camo job with a clear coat that ripples up the Model Masters Enamel.

So I guess my question really ought to be "is there a compatibility chart somewhere" that offers up a "yes you can" or "no you can't" guideline?

Welcome to the wonderful world of model jargon! It also doesn't help that it's a global community so you get use of additional terms that mean the same thing to different people depending on where they are.

If your primary medium is Model Master enamels, then you need to seal it with an acrylic medium if you're going to apply anything over it that is also enamel-thinner based for washes, filters, pin-wash, etc. Virtually ALL of the ready-made stuff out there for these things are going to be enamel-based, so your gloss seal needs to NOT be enamel based or you're wasting your time. That's where Future comes in, it's acrylic (non-enamel), and a gloss. So long as you've allowed it to properly cure (usually 24 hours depending on temps and humidity in your area), it's impervious to enamel thinner. The only thing that will strip it off is ammonia (aka Windex) for example.

Unfortunately there isn't a handy compatibility chart out there (that I know of anyhow) that I can point you to. Some of it you pick up through trial and error, some of it you can get by asking questions as you do now. The problem, as you mention, is that not everything that people call 'acrylic' will behave the same way nor will everything that people call 'enamel' or 'lacquer' will either because of variations in the chemical makeup determined by the manufacturer. However, in general, they will still behave within a certain range/norm spectrum. When in doubt, test it out!

[JimD]

The confusion and misinformation about paint in the modeling world is a big peeve of mine. I actually just wrote something on it a couple days ago which you can find here:

jimsmodels.com/a-bit-about-paint-chemistry/

The simplest answer for you is dint spray lacquer over enamel. I've not had problems with any other combinations.

Enamels don't cure for A ling time (relatively speaking) so theoretically you could have issue putting stuff over it before it's cured but I've never seen it to be much issue.

Most of us use enamels for weathering so if you use enamel paints you have to seal with some sort if non enamel medium. Be it an acrylic or lacquer.

[Tobi]

Sept 11, 2015 12:12:39 GMT -5 wbill76 said:

Virtually ALL of the ready-made stuff out there for these things are going to be enamel-based (...)

I have to object Bill, True Earth and Vallejo washes are not!
'Nuff nitpicking...

[wbill76]

Sept 11, 2015 13:17:37 GMT -5 Tobi said:

Sept 11, 2015 12:12:39 GMT -5 wbill76 said:

Virtually ALL of the ready-made stuff out there for these things are going to be enamel-based (...)

I have to object Bill, True Earth and Vallejo washes are not!
'Nuff nitpicking...

Always an exception to every rule!

[petros]

A little article from my bookmarks about future in other countries:
nswbgmodelling.airleague.com.au/PlasticModelPage/TheCompleteFuture.htm
Also, there's a dealer in Germany who sells the "original" future in small glasses for a fortune. I just use Erdal Glanz and it works well.