CH (Dragon) Gruppe Fehrmann Tiger I

[armorguy]

Fits like a glove now Bill, luckily you have these massive clamps to keep everything together.

[wbill76]

Jan 29, 2016 2:36:18 GMT -5 armorguy said:

Fits like a glove now Bill, luckily you have these massive clamps to keep everything together.

Thanks AG! Those clamps are handy to have around. Got them cheap at a wholesale hardware store and use them for all sorts of things. Definitely reduces the hand cramps!

[deafpanzer]

Looking great!!! A friend of mine wants to glue Cavalier Zimmerit to his Tiger and he wanted to know which glue works best. Suppose he doesn't have Gator glue, is there another glue you would recommend for my friend to try?

p.s. He bought my Tiger kit with Cavalier Zimmerit earlier this week so I am trying to help him on that question. LOL

[wbill76]

Jan 29, 2016 11:39:19 GMT -5 deafpanzer said:

Looking great!!! A friend of mine wants to glue Cavalier Zimmerit to his Tiger and he wanted to know which glue works best. Suppose he doesn't have Gator glue, is there another glue you would recommend for my friend to try?

p.s. He bought my Tiger kit with Cavalier Zimmerit earlier this week so I am trying to help him on that question. LOL

Cavalier is also resin so no real difference there. He needs to use something with work time, CA gel if he's brave but the resin will grab with it faster since it has a natural affinity already for it. I used to use the Testors Window maker glue before I switched to the Gator's Glue. I still will use CA on occasion to tack down tough edges but that's rare. Kenny Loup sells the Gator glue direct from his website and it's relatively inexpensive. Have your buddy check it out!

[deafpanzer]

Great suggestion! You are helpful as usual... thanks!

[afvfan]

This is coming along fine, Bill.

Have to agree with you on the CA gel for zim. Placement has got to be pretty well perfect to get away with using it.

[wbill76]

Thanks Bob! Yep, learned that one the hard way the first time I worked with a set.

[wbill76]

More fun with the zim panels today, this time around I focused on the side panels first. The reference pics for F13 show it pretty beat up but also clearly heavily battle damaged as a result of the action it was involved in. As a result, I decided to have some damage to the left side panel but not of the catastrophic variety. The turret is also going to get a lot of its zim removed/chipped up too, so some restraint is called for to avoid it overpowering the final look. Working from the photo, I used some small curved scissors and the fender mount points as landmarks to create the damaged areas. The zim panels are thin and a little fragile, so the small scissors did the job beautifully. I added some more small knicks and variations with a sharp #11 knife point.



One thing that Dragon/CH overlooked with the front plate is that it's missing the final fender mount hub...it's present on the unused other part that is correct for the standard Late Tiger but not on the part F20 that is used on this Tiger...so I had to scrounge up some replacements. I found the perfect solution on the TE sprue...there are 4 padlock bodies there that aren't going to be used since they are designed for the turret stowage bin and F13 didn't have a bin. Some careful sanding/trimming had them down to the right size and glued in place. The right side zim panel was added fully intact to counter the damaged left side.



The last of the hull zim was added to the rear plate to get it ready for the details that install there.



Following the diagrams in Steps 5 and 6, I added the rear plate details. There's a weird error...the cold weather starter (Y10 or Y7) is first shown installed, correctly, on the support posts between the exhausts and then in the next diagram it's shown with arrows installing into the already covered crank starter port! I suppose you could do that if you wanted to for a dio or similar...but definitely not appropriate for the F13 build. I filled in the holes in the zim panel that were intended to take a C towing hook since that's not correct for this Tiger. I also left off the tool box and shelf that the instructions call for in Step 6 as it's clear in the reference photo that this also wasn't present on F13.

While the instructions indicate that the heat shields, parts C8 and C9, are an optional feature, I left them off as those are also clearly missing from F13 in the photo. The jack and small tool that goes under the exhausts will get added in later after the hull has been painted.



All in all a good day's progress! Next up will be getting the rest of the engine deck stuff squared away.

[Leon]

Very nice progress Bill! Your zim work looks great.

[wbill76]

Thanks Leon! Always been a big fan of the Atak sets.

[adt70hk]

Looking very nice bill!

[dierk]

Nice work-around on the missing fender mounting thingies Bill! There was an error in the Dragon instructions? NEVER!
I have few virtues, and patience isn't one of them. I've got some Atak Zimm on order for a soviet kitty I'm planning to build, and seeing the great job you're doing with it on the Tiger makes me want to start on it NOW!

[wbill76]

Thanks Andrew!

Jan 30, 2016 5:57:27 GMT -5 dierk said:

Nice work-around on the missing fender mounting thingies Bill! There was an error in the Dragon instructions? NEVER!
I have few virtues, and patience isn't one of them. I've got some Atak Zimm on order for a soviet kitty I'm planning to build, and seeing the great job you're doing with it on the Tiger makes me want to start on it NOW!

The leopard can't change its spots! Can't go wrong with the Atak stuff, sounds like you have a neat project in the future!

[tonylee-Rest In Peace]

TIGERS???

Who left the gate open at the Zoo?

Tony lee

[wbill76]

Jan 30, 2016 13:04:25 GMT -5 tonylee-Rest In Peace said:

TIGERS???

Who left the gate open at the Zoo?

Tony lee

Budget cuts and slow feeding schedule makes for a bad combination!

[Tobi]

So the kitten is taking shape?

You could have chosen a less controversial discussed topic than "F13" Bill, but I guess a modeler grows with the challenge!

I'm curious how it will look once painted.

When I think of these endless debates whether the turret was grey or green, and the number was red outlined with white or not. We have the statement of the photographer that the grey-red combo was the only reason for him to take these pics. On the other hand I feel the number looks too bright in the photo for being red.

Then the question if early turrets have been mated with late hulls! Well, only indication about the hull I could find so far was the headlight and this speaks for an early hull that has been only retrofitted with late wheels.

Next is the bright spot in the place where the turret stowage bin had been. Could it be even light grey zinc phosphate primer like behind the running gear of the Thun and Bovington Tiger B? What about the Zimmerit? So many questions.

In Mig's first FAQ there was a chapter about interpreting black and white photos, with the matching color photo next to it. There were some surprises in there, I would not dare taking anything for granted since I saw this.

Anyhow, good luck! I'm always tellin' myself: "If it looks good, then it is right!"

[wbill76]

Thanks Tobi! You're right about the controversy regarding F13...it's one of those endless debates that will never be fully resolved especially since the photos available aren't great quality to begin with! Even David Byrden is no longer certain that the hull is truly a late hull or even whether it had late wheels vs. rubber rimmed ones!

Given all that uncertainty, there's a lot of room for personal interpretation IMHO. The fact that there's zim on the turret past the spare track holders and the color where the bin would've been looks the same means to me the turret either got a zim coat at the factory as part of a repair/refit when it got mated to a new hull or it was field applied and then painted or something similar before it was turned over to the driving school. That zim looks DY to me and there even appears to be some three-tone camo pattern on the cupola, so the turret must've also been repainted at some point. Now should the exposed area forward of the track links with no zim be primer red or panzer gray? That's a tougher call to make...for me, on the hull at least, I'm going to treat any exposed areas with primer red. On the turret, I might go with panzer gray on the turret given the contrast that would present. Haven't 100% decided yet but am trying to keep a balance between the photos and artistic license in the final result!

[Tobi]

Ask three people what is their opinion about the Fehrmann Tigers and you get five answers!  

[dupes]

Going to be great to see this one next to your Initial Tiger from "back in the day"!

[wbill76]

Made some progress today with the engine deck details as called out in Steps 8 and 10. It's important to note that while the rear access hatches are designed with pins to make them positionable, Dragon neglected to take into account that they also have notch tabs that align with the main deck plate that make it impossible to fit them from underneath as they would have you do it. The solution is simple, just remove the pins and install them at the position desired. In my case, fully closed!

The middle access panel has 4 mount holes that are meant to take the brackets for a set of Feifel air cleaner hoses but never tells you to fill them in. In fact, they continue in the diagram drawings showing them open right to the end of the instructions. Easily resolved with some putty, but best done before you fit the round J13 cover...ask me how I know that.

Last but not least, I added the pre-formed brass screens for the deck grilles. Be careful not to install the J19 latches on the rear hatches until after the screens are in place or the screens can't fit over them otherwise.

As a small added touch, I had a scrap of resin zim left over that I added to the front corner of the left hull side to add a little more variety in that spot.





As you can see, there's a lot of open holes all over the front half of the hull roof meant to take various tools and other bits of gear. I'll have to evaluate those next and see what will stay or go depending on their location.

[wbill76]

Jan 30, 2016 17:29:37 GMT -5 dupes said:

Going to be great to see this one next to your Initial Tiger from "back in the day"!

If it is lined up with the Initial and the Late, we could have an 'evolutionary' trio!

[wbill76]

Jan 30, 2016 17:23:39 GMT -5 Tobi said:

Ask three people what is their opinion about the Fehrmann Tigers and you get five answers!  

Debates about Tigers always draw a lot of passion it seems! Definitely a case of exceptions to the rule when it comes to April 1945 and what pops up all over the place...Germans were literally scraping together anything that could run and fire a gun and throwing it into the mix! Just look at some of the crazy odd-balls that appear in Berlin.

[Tobi]

Jan 30, 2016 18:08:30 GMT -5 wbill76 said:

Jan 30, 2016 17:23:39 GMT -5 Tobi said:

Ask three people what is their opinion about the Fehrmann Tigers and you get five answers!  

Debates about Tigers always draw a lot of passion it seems! Definitely a case of exceptions to the rule when it comes to April 1945 and what pops up all over the place...Germans were literally scraping together anything that could run and fire a gun and throwing it into the mix! Just look at some of the crazy odd-balls that appear in Berlin.

And then people say Germans lack a sense of humor...

[Leon]

Coming together really nicely Bill!

[wbill76]

Thanks Leon!

[afvfan]

Jan 30, 2016 17:06:19 GMT -5 wbill76 said:

That zim looks DY to me and there even appears to be some three-tone camo pattern on the cupola, so the turret must've also been repainted at some point.

To me, it look like the 3 tone camo is peeking through where the zim is chipped away over the pistol port, too. I agree with Tobias about the color of the numbers. If I had to guess, I'd say they were blue (like Aberdeen's Tiger was originally painted when it arrived)......but hey, what do I know.

[wouter]

Very nice couple of updates there Bill, really like that chipped zimmerit!

On a note regarding adding resin zimmerit: you can even use Tamiya thin or ultra thin cement. I did it like that on my StuG: just add the zimmerit on the surface and add the ultra thin in between the plastic and zimmerit, and then push the zimmerit firmly. Sticks wonderful


Cheers

[dierk]

Looking good Bill!
I won't get involved in any colour debates on German armour, as I live in blissful ignorance, and won't even take a peek in that particular can of worms - reminds me way too much of 'I have the ultimate proof of what 4BO looked like because a friend of my grand dad's saw a T-34 in 1944'

Excellent tip Wouter - I'll try that when it's time to pop my Zimmerit cherry!

"And then people say Germans lack a sense of humor..." But the ones that don't have one, really don't have one

[armorguy]

Great progress Bill, the zim looks mighty fine !

[wbill76]

Thanks AG!

Jan 31, 2016 3:05:04 GMT -5 wouter said:

Very nice couple of updates there Bill, really like that chipped zimmerit!

On a note regarding adding resin zimmerit: you can even use Tamiya thin or ultra thin cement. I did it like that on my StuG: just add the zimmerit on the surface and add the ultra thin in between the plastic and zimmerit, and then push the zimmerit firmly. Sticks wonderful


Cheers

I do the same but run it in under the edges once the panels are placed with the Gator's Glue. Makes for a double strong bond direct to the plastic while still having some work time to get things in the right spot.