doogsatx
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Nov 14, 2012 21:29:10 GMT -5
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Post by doogsatx on Mar 20, 2016 14:01:10 GMT -5
I don't build cars. I like cars - a lot - but car models have always seemed lacking next to what's been happening in, say, armor. That and any car I'm really interested in building is inevitably represented by an even simpler, older kit. But, I somehow got roped into building a car as part of a buddy build, and am going with Tamiya's Porsche 934. Supposed to be a great kit. And just to keep things ridiculous, I'm going to be painting mine pink. Aftermarket - I couldn't resist getting some metal wheels. Also, decals for the pink machine, some PE, and some HGW seatbelts.
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doogsatx
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Nov 14, 2012 21:29:10 GMT -5
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Post by doogsatx on Mar 20, 2016 14:06:33 GMT -5
Got started doing seam cleanup on the body and wheels (the latter chucked into a Dremel and "driven" on sandpaper), then did a wet sand of the body shell before moving on to primer. The Zero white primer dusted pretty bad, and had a lot of trouble covering the garish orange of the plastic. The dusting, while annoying, wasn't a big deal, since a swipe of micromesh knocked it completely smooth. But then something else happened...
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doogsatx
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Feb and Sept 2014_ MoM Winner
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Nov 14, 2012 21:29:10 GMT -5
Nov 14, 2012 21:29:10 GMT -5
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Post by doogsatx on Mar 20, 2016 14:09:46 GMT -5
Ten days after applying the primer, I was getting ready to start thinking about paint, when I saw this. The primer completely lifting away from the plastic. In sheets.
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doogsatx
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Nov 14, 2012 21:29:10 GMT -5
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Post by doogsatx on Mar 20, 2016 14:14:44 GMT -5
I decided to give the Zero primer another shot, head-to-head against Gunze Mr. Surfacer 1500 and Badger Stynlyrez. Here it is on some Hasegawa plastic. As this is apples to apples, the plastic has not been prepped in any way. Pretty sure it got rinsed at some point, but that's it. The Zero dusted. The others didn't. I walked away for the night figuring I'd pick it up in a day or two. Then I came out the next morning, not seven hours later, to this. So now the Porsche is getting cleaned up for a new go with a new primer.
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Post by Leon on Mar 20, 2016 15:40:03 GMT -5
WOW... That really looks nasty Doogs! Do you think you got a bad bottle of primer?
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Deleted
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May 3, 2024 4:35:53 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 16:25:33 GMT -5
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doogsatx
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Nov 14, 2012 21:29:10 GMT -5
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Post by doogsatx on Mar 20, 2016 16:55:48 GMT -5
I might need some of that to finish the job. IPA has worked for most but there are a few nooks where the primer is being stubborn.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 17:49:54 GMT -5
Seams like you did everything right. Maybe there was too much moisture in the air or something got on the surface.
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afvfan
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Bob
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Dec 10, 2012 17:32:38 GMT -5
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Post by afvfan on Mar 20, 2016 18:20:21 GMT -5
Does Maaco make that primer?
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Post by wbill76 on Mar 20, 2016 19:02:24 GMT -5
Wow, so much for that particular type of primer...although it could be quite useful if you ever wanted to do a worn whitewash finish...
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doogsatx
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Nov 14, 2012 21:29:10 GMT -5
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Post by doogsatx on Mar 20, 2016 23:58:33 GMT -5
Seams like you did everything right. Maybe there was too much moisture in the air or something got on the surface.
I think there's enough other stuff to evaluate that the one common failure point is the use of that one primer. Especially considering the P-40 test with the two others that had no problems at all.
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Post by JimD on Mar 21, 2016 9:17:07 GMT -5
Haha. I'm dubbing this whole primer incident "Primergate." Unfortunate that the stuff totally flaked (literally). Hmm...I think I probably need to actually start mine
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2016 10:08:56 GMT -5
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Post by JimD on Mar 21, 2016 10:29:16 GMT -5
Lol a Paul Budzick vid? You trying to cure my insomnia?
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jpc1968
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Post by jpc1968 on Mar 21, 2016 12:32:26 GMT -5
oh man, Doogs. I really hate that for you. I was so looking forward to following this. All in all, once you get everything ready a restart, I'm sure it will be worth the wait.
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Post by wbill76 on Mar 22, 2016 13:51:51 GMT -5
Lol a Paul Budzick vid? You trying to cure my insomnia? It's the background music that does it every time.
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legend
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Nov 30, 2011 13:49:32 GMT -5
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Post by legend on Mar 22, 2016 14:12:20 GMT -5
I just use rattle can primer from an auto store, never had a problem
bill
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jsteinman
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Post by jsteinman on Mar 22, 2016 14:18:05 GMT -5
You are obviously being punished for building a car kit. That being said, dude that really sucks - I would try for a full refund.
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Post by eastrock on Mar 22, 2016 14:42:27 GMT -5
would you mind if I butt in, Doogs? the suggestion of legend is a good option but the disadvantage is some primer (CAN) had some effects on plastic, even its say primer for plastic... it may cause some rough surface and etching.
with regards to the Zero paints what I've notice (correct me if I'm wrong) is some form of acrylic latex which is not recommendable to cars, it won't adhere to the styrene. if you can get hold on Gunze Primer either Can or Surface primer 1500, this will be great! if none, you need a lacquer base primer... if you have some alclad II primer that would be good too...
what I've notice on the body shell is shiny, it should bit matt finish to make the paint adhere to the plastic.
I'll also following the tread, and help anyway that I can...
Cheers!!!
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doogsatx
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Nov 14, 2012 21:29:10 GMT -5
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Post by doogsatx on Mar 22, 2016 15:33:49 GMT -5
Well Zero primer is *supposed* to be lacquer. So silly me was assuming it would behave like all the other lacquer primers I've used. There was actually Mr. Surfacer 1500 sprayed on the inside surfaces of the Porsche and it had zero problems of any kind.
Could I have sanded the surface flatter than I did? I could have - but again - I have plenty of lacquer primer experience and getting the stuff to adhere to plastic - even plastic that's been polished and buffed - has never been an issue, be it Gunze or Tamiya or MM lacquer primer.
Before stripping, I did some follow-up sprays of both Gunze MS1500 and Badger Stynylrez onto the Porsche. The exact spots where the Zero lifted. Both went down great and showed no dusting, no adhesion problems...
I've got some Mr. Paint white primer on the way and will be going with that...every time I've sprayed their regular paints I've been blown away, and so if it's half as good as them it'll do perfectly.
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Post by eastrock on Mar 23, 2016 1:29:58 GMT -5
Most of the time we are very confident on our comfort zone, as you mention its your first time with cars... I too have a few bout with different kind of primer, from automotive to hobby grade... some primers work best on a certain brand, but sometimes it doesn't.
there's nothing I could say about Mr. Color / Gunze, one of the best primers for our hobby only trouble is surfacer primers usually sold first than their color line.
Cheers!!!
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noname
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Post by noname on Mar 23, 2016 5:43:50 GMT -5
I've always used regular automotive primer. A lot of guys who build strictly cars use pretty much all stuff from the auto motive industry from primer to body fill to wax. But of course that is not necessary as it is a plastic model. I use Tamiya white rattle can primer when painting a bright colour. That works quite well. Anyway, that Porsche looks cool. I even dig the pink!
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doogsatx
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Post by doogsatx on Mar 24, 2016 10:27:30 GMT -5
There and back again. IPA powered through the vast majority of the primer, but the last 5% was stubborn. Swapped out for Purple Power. Didn't seem to be having any effect at first, but when I looked last night I saw a bunch of primer flakes floating around. Took it out, scrubbed at it with a toothbrush and the primer just dissolved away. So now I'm back where I started!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 13:32:21 GMT -5
I admire your perseverance Doogs.
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doogsatx
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Nov 14, 2012 21:29:10 GMT -5
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Post by doogsatx on Mar 26, 2016 21:48:13 GMT -5
Back at it with primer - this time using Alclad white. Of course I didn't realize til I started spraying that the paint stripping also stripped off some filler on the rear quarterpanels. So have to go tackle those.
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Post by eastrock on Mar 27, 2016 1:19:09 GMT -5
off for another fresh start doogs!!! is this with the micro filler?
Cheers!!!
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Post by mustang1989 on Mar 27, 2016 7:22:40 GMT -5
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jpc1968
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Post by jpc1968 on Apr 12, 2016 9:26:16 GMT -5
Yes Mustang, I was strictly Star Wars and Military aircraft modeler. Thought autos were boring/stupid. Then a friend asked me to do a Dodge Viper RT10. I instantly fell in love with doing autos. I love the exotic sports cars most. You'll get hooked Doogs, so prepare to go buy a truckload of car models now.
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doogsatx
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Post by doogsatx on Apr 12, 2016 11:13:02 GMT -5
So this one's not on hold...it's just that I've been plugging away at the Dauntless of late.
BUT - my big issue with cars is that the kits just aren't that great compared to aircraft and armor. Or that the great kits that are out there are for subjects I don't care about (Ferraris...). Even this Porsche, which seems nice enough, has a number of bonehead choices that just seem *off* from the Tamiya I know (molding the headlights so that you have to mask off the lens to paint a tiny little band behind them...). And things that are increasingly becoming standard on armor kits - things like moderately workable suspension - aren't in evidence.
My secondary issue is size. 1/24 feels small. But larger kits either fall into don't care (Ferraris again) or old (Tamiya Nissan 240Z).
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M1Carbine
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Post by M1Carbine on Apr 12, 2016 12:20:50 GMT -5
Does Maaco make that primer? LMAO! That is some nasty stuff! Bob
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