afvfan
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Bob
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Dec 10, 2012 17:32:38 GMT -5
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Post by afvfan on Apr 6, 2016 10:36:49 GMT -5
This was a piece I did about 5 years ago and is presented here by request. It was built to convey an idea with no thought of historical accuracy (hence the use of the Krupp as the base vehicle). As the title states, it is a mental view of the state of the Polish military, as imagined by the German high command, a month before the invasion. It was entered in three shows, including the AMPS Nationals in 2011, eliciting some controversy each time. Talking to people, and overhearing comments, most of it stemmed from people either not understanding the concept, or, not reading the full title and thinking I was slamming the Poles. Either way, I found it humorous to hear. Enjoy.
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k1w1
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Post by k1w1 on Apr 6, 2016 10:50:37 GMT -5
Fantastic work Extremely clever. I really like this. Life is far too important to be taken to seriously
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afvfan
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Member since: December 2012
Bob
Posts: 1,772
Dec 10, 2012 17:32:38 GMT -5
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Post by afvfan on Apr 6, 2016 12:12:26 GMT -5
Fantastic work Extremely clever. I really like this. Life is far too important to be taken to seriously Thanks for the sentiments, Peter, and I totally agree with the last line. The PC cabal has seriously tried to make the world a humorless place.
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Post by Tojo72 on Apr 6, 2016 12:23:01 GMT -5
Very cool.
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Post by dierk on Apr 6, 2016 12:28:22 GMT -5
Love it!!! And if it rubbed up a few people the wrong way, so much the better. Although, I'd have preferred an SPT: Self Propelled Trebouchet
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bish
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Horatio Nelson 'I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so'
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Jan 13, 2013 8:57:43 GMT -5
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Post by bish on Apr 6, 2016 12:44:41 GMT -5
That put a smile on my face, I like it.
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Post by tigrazor on Apr 6, 2016 13:06:05 GMT -5
And THAT is what a diorama/vignette is meant to be: simple, but clever idea. Good concept and convincing if you ask me. Wasnt it the Polish who went into war with Hussars as cavalry, just to be beaten by 35t tanks etc.? It was really kind of anachronistic somehow.
Never mind the narrow minded - its a great idea!
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BJ
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Post by BJ on Apr 6, 2016 14:31:37 GMT -5
love it
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Post by Leon on Apr 6, 2016 15:13:21 GMT -5
Love the concept and build Bob!
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afvfan
Senior Member
Member since: December 2012
Bob
Posts: 1,772
Dec 10, 2012 17:32:38 GMT -5
Dec 10, 2012 17:32:38 GMT -5
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Post by afvfan on Apr 6, 2016 17:39:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the comments guys and gal. Glad I could spread a little joy in the world. Dierk, They actually field tested a trebouchet version, but it failed trials. It was found that it had serious aiming issues while trying to fire on the move, and was too top heavy, creating a hazardous rollover problem. Lucas, yes, there was an instance or two involving cavalry (braves souls all) that the Germans probably got a good laugh over. They were, however, not even grinning by the end of September, when they saw their total losses for the campaign. They started the invasion with about 2400 tanks against Poland's 800 (of which only about 200 were armed with more than a machinegun). By the end of the invasion the Germans had lost 1/3 of their tank force, and it would have been much higher than that had Russia not invaded when they did, splitting Poland's forces.
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adt70hk
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Currently attempting to build something decent!!! ;)
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Post by adt70hk on Apr 7, 2016 6:51:08 GMT -5
Bob Thank you for taking the time dig out the pics and start the thread - and apologies for causing you the extra work! It's a brilliant idea and it's interesting to hear that so many people appeared to misunderstood the point you were trying to make. It's blindingly obvious to me!! So perhaps my imagination and ability to think 'outside the box' is not quite as limited as I thought it was !! Thanks again for sharing!! Andrew
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vindicareassassin
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Post by vindicareassassin on Apr 7, 2016 8:51:32 GMT -5
Bob It's blindingly obvious to me!! So perhaps my imagination and ability to think 'outside the box' is not quite as limited as I thought it was !! Thanks again for sharing!! I think you'll find its because your English, and therefore mentally hard wired to take the rise out of pretty much everyone regardless of whether they deserve it or not, so this kind of thing is glaringly obvious to us. ATB Sean
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 9:32:49 GMT -5
Some great humor!
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Post by dierk on Apr 7, 2016 10:10:42 GMT -5
Bob It's blindingly obvious to me!! So perhaps my imagination and ability to think 'outside the box' is not quite as limited as I thought it was !! Thanks again for sharing!! I think you'll find its because your English, and therefore mentally hard wired to take the rise out of pretty much everyone regardless of whether they deserve it or not, so this kind of thing is glaringly obvious to us. ATB Sean You took the words right off of my keyboard Sean - although I'm of the Krauty persuasion by birth I lived that long in Britain, mostly in L'pool, I've become an honorary scouser. Having to be back in the Fatherland for the time being, my wife and I frequently encounter the 'infamous withering look' when we find something hilariously funny that nobody else in these parts gets - square peg/round hole...
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Post by deafpanzer on Apr 8, 2016 12:38:27 GMT -5
Way too funny! Thanks for making me chuckle...
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afvfan
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Member since: December 2012
Bob
Posts: 1,772
Dec 10, 2012 17:32:38 GMT -5
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Post by afvfan on Apr 9, 2016 21:19:59 GMT -5
It's blindingly obvious to me!! So perhaps my imagination and ability to think 'outside the box' is not quite as limited as I thought it was !! Thanks again for sharing!! I kind of thought the title would make it blindingly obvious to anyone who saw it, Andrew, but deep down I knew there'd be issues with a few people.... there always are. Of course, that may have been one of the reasons I did it in the first place. Glad you enjoyed it. ------------------------------ Sorry for the late responses. I just back from the AMPS Nationals and am playing catch up here. Sean and Dierk - I don't know if it really has as much to do with an "English" mentality as it does with a basic comprehension of the English language, and a sense of humor not rooted in the PC movement (as I previously mentioned to Peter). In fact, if you get right down to it, this whole thing is more about the German's state of mind at the time, than it is about Poland's forces. Thanks, Bruce and Andy.
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Post by panzerjager2 on May 6, 2016 22:14:10 GMT -5
Very Cool...................
Sorry I didn't notice this post prior to today
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martslay
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Post by martslay on May 7, 2016 1:47:12 GMT -5
Interesting idea and fine execution! It cool!
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afvfan
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Member since: December 2012
Bob
Posts: 1,772
Dec 10, 2012 17:32:38 GMT -5
Dec 10, 2012 17:32:38 GMT -5
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Post by afvfan on May 8, 2016 15:14:23 GMT -5
Thanks guys. Glad you liked it.
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c3p0
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The harder you sweat in here the less you gonna bleed on the special project this is a must have.
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Jan 3, 2016 14:26:19 GMT -5
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Post by c3p0 on Jun 14, 2016 18:11:03 GMT -5
I love it is a great punch line to a very good joke. I am very impressed with your work.
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moramarth
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Post by moramarth on Jun 14, 2016 20:53:27 GMT -5
Hi, The delicious irony about this thread is that it’s actually the German military that have had a long-term fascination with ancient artillery. Towards the end of the 19th century the French and the Germans didn’t really have a good word for each other (but quite a few bad ones) which extended to their academic community often being in a game of intellectual one-upmanship, dissing the theories presented by the other nation’s scholars (however daft some of the counter-theories were). It seems to be a common belief ancient artillery could be knocked together out of any old bits of lumber lying around as and when needed: that just isn’t so. While there were occasional field improvisations such as the monster rock chuckers built by Leg.X Fretensis at the siege of Jerusalem in A.D.70 these tended to be built by experts who knew what they were doing. The bulk of Greek and Roman artillery were workshop built to pretty rigorous specifications. Ever since torsion artillery was invented by the world’s first “Think Tank” organised by Dionysius I, the Tyrant of Syracuse, the designs had been refined to a point where dimensions for optimum performance derived from trial-and-error could be codified into construction manuals. The interesting thing is that these weren’t scaled, they were proportioned. Each component was given measurements as a multiple of a base dimension which was the inside diameter of the washers at each end of the torsion spring, therefore the designs could scaled to suit the length of arrow to be shot or the weight of the object to be thrown. For a Euthytone arrow shooter this would be one-ninth of the length of the arrow to be shot. For a Palintone Lithobolos things were more complex and can be expressed by the formula 1.1(100W) 1/3 (where W is the weight of the projectile in Attic minas and the hole diameter is measured in dactyls#): the ancients couldn’t actually perform this calculation but the manuals included methods of deriving the value by geometry. The manuals with their diagrams survive, but sufficiently distorted by uncomprehending medieval copyists to leave plenty of room for debate as to the exact meaning of some passages (not helped by some of the drawings); it was these that were eagerly seized upon by the rival classicists. It’s not surprising that the Germans with their love of precision engineering essentially came out the winners. Between the turn of the 20th Century and about 1920 a Major (later Generalleutnant) of Artillery called Erwin Schramm used the resources under his charge to make reconstructions of the most common (and some uncommon) types of ancient artillery. He had access to what was probably the last generation of artillery artificers used to working with wood and wrought iron rather than steel, and with these he resolved the theoretical problems by practical experimentation – common enough now but at the time an almost unique occurrence. These reconstructions were housed at the Saalburg Museum, and several still survive there. One of these, after spending nearly fifty years in an open-fronted shed, was reconditioned with the intention of further test-shooting. In the interim views on Health and Safety had moved on somewhat so rather than dragging it to the nearest piece of open ground it was hosted by the 45th Panzerartilleriebataillon on their firing range, thus maintaining an old association. (When first built it had achieved a range of 305 meters, on the 7th December 1979 it still managed 285 meters; this helps confirm the longevity of these engines in classical times which is hinted at in the manuals*.) Schramm and Kaiser Bill with the Palintonon, 16th June 1904. The German Army's love affair with these weapons continues: between 2012 and 2014 the Bundeswehruniversität Hamburg was one of several academic bodies involved in building and testing torsion artillery from the Classical period. Those reconstructions by Schramm which are no longer extant (including the Palintonon and, more relevantly, the Onager) seem to have disappeared towards the end of WW2. I have long held the theory they were appropriated by the local Volkssturm. Perhaps the model would be more authentic if it bore the inscription “Volkssturm Artillerie, Bad Homburg, 1944”… Cheers, M #1 mina=436.6 g, 1 dactyl=19.3 mm *This is further confirmed by a remarkable discovery. In 1887 fragments were discovered of a small arrow shooter which included the front plate which gave the consuls of the year (A.D.45) of its construction by Legio VIII Minerva (then based at Mainz). The find spot corresponds to an incident described in accounts of the 2nd Battle of Cremona (or Bedriacum) during the Year of the Four Emperors which places its destruction (and deposition) as occurring on the night of 24/25th October A.D.69, after nearly quarter of a century of service.
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