What would you do? or how would you handle this?

[panzerjager2]

So for those that have seen some of my posts, you would already know I like to ask relevant questions.....

Here's one for you.....................  How would you HONESTLY handle this situation???


I was recently asked by a local hobbyist to comment about the quality or level of his or her work, and if I thought they were ready for a competition coming to the area. For the record this is no one from the forum, for that matter i don't even know if this person is aware of the forum. This person primarily builds Armour, thus that's why I was asked for my "opinion".  Background, this person has been building for about 15 years. Mostly US and Allied Armour, with a dusting of German Panzers thrown in for good measure. The work is well, at best a "work in progress". At worst GADDSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.  Now before any of you closet IPMS wanabe's out there get blood thirsty. I will tell you exactly how I handled this situation....... BUT keep in mind, ALL of you have been asked by a wife, sweetheart, friend, main squeeze or sheep the following question..... "am I getting fat' "does this make my butt look big"?? or some variation on the theme. And You all have LIED, lied out your fanny.... just to preserve peace and or harmony....thus the question, How would you honestly handle this..............

I told the modeler that based on a lifetime of building, and all the ancillary avenues that come with attending 1000's of show as both guest and entrant, that they had made progress. As well as the fact you can't compare models by competition, nor was that a way to validate one's work or worth. I further proffered that their work need more practice and exploration. I offered up what I think are the "holy" bibles of model building... that being Shep Paine's Building Armor Models and Building Dioramas. Both are excellent for any skill level, BUT invaluable for the novice.

During the course of this conversation which I have reduced here to a few lines, I was struck by several facts.... One: Opinions are like, well you know assess.... We all have em, and most plain stink.... and Two: Keeping our hobby alive is all of our responsibility. There are plenty of people that have been turned off to model building because they to went to a competition or club meeting and received a POOR response. Or even worse asked for advice and were given the brush off or BS'd. For me, I was struck by what an awesome responsibility this is..... Yeah I could have BS'd the person, or worse told them that the work blew chunks... Neither of those really help keep the drive or want to build alive... No I am not on my soap box, hell with all the politic's this year there is enough to go around..... I think for me, we have an obligation to TRY and see our hobby survive for the next generation.....that's alllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[dierk]

It is a toughie for sure, and I think you handled it pretty well. Having been in similar positions myself (although I always feel like it's a case of the one-eyed leading the partially sighted) I try to strike a balance between praise and constructive criticism to make the person feel they are moving in the right direction.

[Leon]

Haven't been in that situation yet! I've entered contest and had a few comments made that i thought were a little unfair but accepted them to help me improve on future builds.

[fhvn4d]

Havent been in THIS situation but your "rant" at the end is RIGHT ON. I was turned off at a show once, and most of you saw all about it on any forum I could get on. Why share such a bad experience?? Because exactly as you said, the propagation and advancement, or lack there of, is entirely up to us as modellers. We need to bring our smile and positive suggestions even in the field filled with manure. What is often sub standard by OUR standards is a work that someone probably put their best work in and needs either encouragement to step outside their comfort zone, or as in this case, some "fatherly" advice on what basic or advanced techniques they appear to lack. It must be done with the same fatherly admiration for a son or daughter who is at least trying.

[Tojo72]

Your experience sounds right,thats a good way of handling it.What I would have done also.

You didn't tell us how you were received,was it a good outcome ?

[jpc1968]

I think you handled it well. The only thing I would have done differently is I think I would tell them that shows are objective and judges are brutally honest. So if you do not "Place" be willing to accept the answer if you ask why. I would tell them if they were to ask the judges, to ask how can they improve and what judges generally look for. I have a friend that has won awards at many shows and also won best of show at Verlinden's show in St. Louis. He helps me and he's honest and tells me how it is. Maybe you could tell this person honestly but tell them not to give up.

[vlpbruce]

I am in the same situation when I judge models for the local county fairs.
As many here have said, I try to be as positive as possible. I always try to find something good on the model, and politely tell them how I would have done something differently.
You handled it just as I would have.

[kaytermarram]

Constructive critisism is the keyword here! I do no favor by judging a build the way the builder would love to hear. Thinking that only the "truth" can help I tell it the way I see it. And if someone ask me, do you think I am fat I say simply yes when he or she is. Why lying? Same goes for models and build ups. But, as said, be constructive and fair!

Frank

[JimD]

Constructive honest criticism would be my response, but again I co-founded "The Scale Modelers Critique Group" on Facebook for a reason.

It's encouraging to hear people seeking advice and wanting to advance and improve themselves. I think there has been a bit of a void created for this outlets by forums and other mediums (not this one specifically) shutting down any type of criticism as if it's a bad thing.

That said, there are a lot of people out there in the hobby that want nothing but reinforcement and take constructive criticism very harshly for some reason. Heck, there are even those that come after us for giving an outlet for it.

There is a delicate balance though I think. I don't like the idea of people building for competition, as if their only goal is to win stuff. I don't enter contests for a reason. I just take nothing from it. However, I do want to improve my work and get better and advance. I just don't feel like building for competition is necessary for that. I don't feel like you should seek critique for any other reason than your own desire to improve; not to keep up with others, or win useless plaques. That's just my $0.02.

[Tobi]

What I have learned from shows and competitions is that every judge has a personal taste, even if he tries to be as fair and neutral as is required for this task, it will influence his look on the model (honestly speaking I wouldn't want to be a judge for myself).

I have even experienced that some things were criticized on my models that looked exactly the way they were intended to do and where I had put extra effort in, because I wanted it that way. Just to give some keywords: half-rusted exhausts, chips and scratches, fuel spills, sun bleached and faded matte finishes, that stuff. 

Apart from trying to get better and improve the look of your models, you sooner or later have to make a choice: either build for competitions and take into consideration what other people might like if you want to win a gold medal, or simply build for yourself and 100% like what you did.

Personally I have seen way too many Wehrmacht equipment chipped and battered like it was almost falling apart because that is common perception how German stuff should look. Sorry, but a combat ready Kursk Panther for example is a brand new vehicle! There is no sense in making it look like a 1945 veteran tank from the Poland campaign and I refuse in doing so just to make someone else happy!

That said, I think it's a good idea to always point out to someone that your feedback is your personal point of view and someone else might judge totally different. If you feel the need to criticize always tell how you would do different and why! It's no dishonesty to commend people for something even if the model is insulting your eye, as long as at the same time you encourage and tell them to put more effort or attention to what they are doing.

[mrversatile]

I have entered many contests and I think they have been the number 1 reason I improved my modeling skills. They have pushed me to do better and I have received praise and criticism, but mostly it has changed my mindset from competing against other models to placing my best pieces on display for others to see and speak about, then meeting other builders to speak about theirs and exchanging advice and techniques. I think here is where one can encourage while critiquing and offering solutions to some deficiencies. This is how I learned and continue to do so. I know everyone is different and some only want to hear how great they are and I or anyone else can't change these people. If this is the case, they won't be successful in anything they do, and will move on to something else to repeat the cycle.