Spray booths

[Green KreationZ]

Do any of you use spray booths to paint solvent based paints indoors (lacquer/enamel)? 

I have read that it isn’t the safest to use solvent based paints through a spray booth since they are flammable. But I have also read a counter argument that we don’t spray nearly enough to really reach the ignition concentration. 

Also a concern is how effective the spray booth would be. I use Alclad lacquer paints and they produce a pretty toxic smell. Would a spray booth be able to pull out enough of the fumes to make them safe? I would have the booth vented out through a window. 

Thanks! 

[Tojo72]

Spray booth fan motors should be the sealed type or yes they would cause ignition.If the fan is the proper CFM and the hose is the right length,can be too long,it should carry it all to the outside.You need to consider the specs before buying or building anything

Also I don't use a booth,my basement is huge 1500 sq ft with 5 windows and sliders with 10 ft ceilings,plus when I spray I don't produce huge clouds of vapor.When I spray a little bigger piece,I will use a respirator.

[project510]

I use an Artograph 1530 I bought many many years ago. I spray enamel and Lacquer and it works well enough. I have it close to a vent in the garage which I have hoses venting out the fumes.
Im interested to see what what others are suing because I want to replace it. Even though I read the down draft style booth is better I noticed a big improvement removing the fumes when I turned it on its side and painted that way.



I was interested in the Paasche side draft style booth since its affordable but I noticed this fine print at the bottom of the add:

"Note: Not intended for use with hazardous materials, flammable or explosive paints or materials"

I for sure need to use some kind of booth because the fumes seem to linger for a long time in the garage with nothing. and Painting outside may work during the summer but not now during the colder time of year. So I kept searching and found a more expensive version of the Paasche $1500 is not affordable haha The other is around $300 but makes sense. Non sealed fan vs sealed.. Crazy price difference but there is also a huge difference in CFM 300 vs 1100 roughly

[tcoat]

I have this one.

It is designed for and safe right up to highly volatile sprays such as lacquer. it is portable and you just pop the hose out a window. I spray everything even rattle cans in the thing and there is almost zero odour in the house. I love the thing.

www.amazon.ca/OPHIR-Airbrush-Portable-Adjustable-Brightness/dp/B082D88JCT/ref=asc_df_B082D88JCT/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459570944395&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3324283738486983517&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001069&hvtargid=pla-872299574063&mcid=cd36ddfc9d583cf78986b02a8c855f95&th=1

[M1Carbine]

If you can, Pace spray booths are excellent. I had the huge patriot but downsized to the patriot mini. Yhe kick ass…..period.

-Bob

[eaglecash867]

No spray booth here. Never found one to be necessary for my airbrushing style.

[keavdog]

I have the smaller (well-used) micro-mark one that looks alot like the smaller version of James' rig. I spray everything through it including straight lacquer thinner when cleaning the brush. I can't believe how expensive they have gotten. I had the window vent setup in the old house but I'm having a dryer vent installed just to the right of the booth.

[aaronw]

I have a homemade paint booth that I've been using for 14 or 15 years now.

After doing a lot of reading about paint booths I ended up making my own from plywood, a cross draft type, about 24x24x18". I came up with the size based on painting a 1/72 B-29 assembled or a B36 in pieces thinking these are about the biggest models I may attempt.

I used a 400-500cfm shaded pole blower (aka Squirrel cage) which is 2-3x the cfm of most of the better quality commercial booths. Most of the commercial booths assume an airbrush, and go on the low end of the recommended air flow (plus the fan is the most expensive component, so smaller fan = less expensive). I use rattle cans, so wanted something well above the minimum. The whole thing cost me a day of labor and around $200, the blower being more than 1/2 the cost. I went with 6" ducting, and only have a short run. Using too small of ducting really reduces the air flow, and the common 4 dryer ducting is really not big enough for many paint booths, particularly if it has to go more than just a couple of feet.

Once I figure out the photo posting thing, I can add a picture of my set up.



The fire thing tends to be overblown. It absolutely is a real concern, but to have a fire / explosion, you not only need an ignition source, but the flammable materials and air have to be in a pretty narrow concentration. The filters absorb most of the solids, and some of the propellant gasses, plus we are rarely just fogging the paint, usually short bursts so with our normal use that is unlikely. The only reliable case of a paint booth resulting in a fire that I am aware of was from somebody using a shop vac as the "fan". This resulted in the fumes becoming concentrated in the cannister, eventually there was a spark and boom. I read a test done with a professional paint booth, and they had to use two cans of spray paint going full blast to even reach the bottom end of the flammable limits (LEL - Lower Explosive Limit) within the ducting.

Not wanting to take chances I opted for the shaded pole blower which keeps the motor out of the air stream, one less potential ignition source. As a firefighter it would be very embarrassing to have to call the fire department to my own house.

[Green KreationZ]

Wow some really great information here! I really appreciate everyone’s input and am going to move forward with getting one. I’m tired of having to carry project across my house and into my garage just to spray my solvent based paints lol. Thanks again everyone!!

[project510]

Dec 13, 2023 21:26:26 GMT -5 keavdog said:

I have the smaller (well-used) micro-mark one that looks alot like the smaller version of James' rig. I spray everything through it including straight lacquer thinner when cleaning the brush. I can't believe how expensive they have gotten. I had the window vent setup in the old house but I'm having a dryer vent installed just to the right of the booth.

Yea Arograph Discontinued them and MM started reselling them branding them their own. Its identical to mine. Only I bought it 
Like 12 or so years ago like $380 and now its like $800 which is just insane.

[Tobi]

The one time I have been using a commercial spray booth I found it too small, too loud, too uncomfortable for working, and the room was so full of fumes (you could see it) afterwards, just as if I hadn't used any. So I resold it. I'm using a FFP3 mask and sort on venting well and leaving the room afterwards. What I may aquire perhaps in the future for my workshop is a fine particle filter machine for 35m² that can run all day silently, on top of the vacuum cleaner I use for sanding operations.
I won't rule out however I may try to design one day my own kind of custom spray booth if I find it desireable.

[TJ]

Here's mine. Just a $100 one off Amazon. Its small but I haven't found d it to be too small for my needs. It does its job, gets the fumes out the window. I don't have room for a bigger one right now.

[keavdog]

And a poster of all the P-51s you're going to build 😁

[tcoat]

Dec 14, 2023 10:44:05 GMT -5 keavdog said:

And a poster of all the P-51s you're going to build 😁

Well maybe a poster of half of them!

[Medicman71]

Dec 13, 2023 17:19:32 GMT -5 tcoat said:

I have this one.

It is designed for and safe right up to highly volatile sprays such as lacquer. it is portable and you just pop the hose out a window. I spray everything even rattle cans in the thing and there is almost zero odour in the house. I love the thing.

www.amazon.ca/OPHIR-Airbrush-Portable-Adjustable-Brightness/dp/B082D88JCT/ref=asc_df_B082D88JCT/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459570944395&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3324283738486983517&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001069&hvtargid=pla-872299574063&mcid=cd36ddfc9d583cf78986b02a8c855f95&th=1

OK so I have the same spray booth and it doesn't vent the fumes that well. I spray lacquers and it'll stink to high hell for a long time. I have it venting out the window just above it. The dual fan set in the window is positioned to pull the fumes out the window.

 

[robbo]

Dec 13, 2023 17:19:32 GMT -5 tcoat said:

I have this one.

It is designed for and safe right up to highly volatile sprays such as lacquer. it is portable and you just pop the hose out a window. I spray everything even rattle cans in the thing and there is almost zero odour in the house. I love the thing.

www.amazon.ca/OPHIR-Airbrush-Portable-Adjustable-Brightness/dp/B082D88JCT/ref=asc_df_B082D88JCT/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459570944395&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3324283738486983517&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001069&hvtargid=pla-872299574063&mcid=cd36ddfc9d583cf78986b02a8c855f95&th=1

I have one of these too and would recommend it

[tcoat]

Dec 14, 2023 11:57:43 GMT -5 Medicman71 said:

Dec 13, 2023 17:19:32 GMT -5 tcoat said:

I have this one.

It is designed for and safe right up to highly volatile sprays such as lacquer. it is portable and you just pop the hose out a window. I spray everything even rattle cans in the thing and there is almost zero odour in the house. I love the thing.

www.amazon.ca/OPHIR-Airbrush-Portable-Adjustable-Brightness/dp/B082D88JCT/ref=asc_df_B082D88JCT/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459570944395&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3324283738486983517&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001069&hvtargid=pla-872299574063&mcid=cd36ddfc9d583cf78986b02a8c855f95&th=1

OK so I have the same spray booth and it doesn't vent the fumes that well. I spray lacquers and it'll stink to high hell for a long time. I have it venting out the window just above it. The dual fan set in the window is positioned to pull the fumes out the window.

 

Mine let's virtually no fumes into the room at all with just the booth fans. In fact I can spray about 2 feet in front of the booth and it will suck everything in. Is yours the dual or single blower version? You also may have a negative pressure situation in your house that is fighting the fans and letting the fumes escape the booth. The window fans could actually be causing more of a problem than they solve by drawing air out of the booth. Ventilation has a pile of hidden things that can impact it. I have seen this many times in my 30 year Environmental Health and Safety career in Tier One Automotive parts manufacturing. 

[aaronw]

I'm not sure if this is exactly the same article I based my decisions on, but if not it is similar with a lot of explanation over the different types of set up (cross draft, down draft, top draft), sizing a fan, ducting considerations etc.


modelpaint.tripod.com/booth2.htm


I ordered my blower from Grainger, but these days you can easily find suitable blowers on Amazon, Ebay etc.

I can't read the tag, on mine without moving a bunch of stuff, but I think this is the blower on mine, if not it is very similar. With how long ago I built mine, the exact model I used may not even be sold anymore.

www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-OEM-Blower-6-1-4-in-Wheel-1TDT2



On a side note, I'll add after painting I leave the booth running for quite some time, usually at least 30 minutes, while the paint dries. This ensures the off gassing fumes from the drying paint also go outside. It didn't take me long to figure this out, as I'd shut of the fan right after painting, and with a few minutes would get a strong smell of paint in the room. Because of this a relatively quiet fan is a nice thing to look for.

[tcoat]

Dec 14, 2023 13:39:35 GMT -5 aaronw said:

I'm not sure if this is exactly the same article I based my decisions on, but if not it is similar with a lot of explanation over the different types of set up (cross draft, down draft, top draft), sizing a fan, ducting considerations etc.


modelpaint.tripod.com/booth2.htm


I ordered my blower from Grainger, but these days you can easily find suitable blowers on Amazon, Ebay etc.

I can't read the tag, on mine without moving a bunch of stuff, but I think this is the blower on mine, if not it is very similar. With how long ago I built mine, the exact model I used may not even be sold anymore.

www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-OEM-Blower-6-1-4-in-Wheel-1TDT2



On a side note, I'll add after painting I leave the booth running for quite some time, usually at least 30 minutes, while the paint dries. This ensures the off gassing fumes from the drying paint also go outside. It didn't take me long to figure this out, as I'd shut of the fan right after painting, and with a few minutes would get a strong smell of paint in the room. Because of this a relatively quiet fan is a nice thing to look for.

For 15 years I used a home made one that consisted of a plywood box with a cheap range hood screwed on top. It served fine until I wanted to try using lacquers and rattle cans and I was afraid of blowing the whole thing up. 

[deafpanzer]

Dec 13, 2023 21:06:23 GMT -5 M1Carbine said:

If you can, Pace spray booths are excellent. I had the huge patriot but downsized to the patriot mini. Yhe kick ass…..period.

-Bob

Echo Bob's comment about Pace booths! They are made in USA too! I choose mid sized booth and it is still big enough for all of my builds so far.

[aaronw]

Dec 14, 2023 13:54:06 GMT -5 tcoat said:

Dec 14, 2023 13:39:35 GMT -5 aaronw said:

I'm not sure if this is exactly the same article I based my decisions on, but if not it is similar with a lot of explanation over the different types of set up (cross draft, down draft, top draft), sizing a fan, ducting considerations etc.


modelpaint.tripod.com/booth2.htm


I ordered my blower from Grainger, but these days you can easily find suitable blowers on Amazon, Ebay etc.

I can't read the tag, on mine without moving a bunch of stuff, but I think this is the blower on mine, if not it is very similar. With how long ago I built mine, the exact model I used may not even be sold anymore.

www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-OEM-Blower-6-1-4-in-Wheel-1TDT2



On a side note, I'll add after painting I leave the booth running for quite some time, usually at least 30 minutes, while the paint dries. This ensures the off gassing fumes from the drying paint also go outside. It didn't take me long to figure this out, as I'd shut of the fan right after painting, and with a few minutes would get a strong smell of paint in the room. Because of this a relatively quiet fan is a nice thing to look for.

For 15 years I used a home made one that consisted of a plywood box with a cheap range hood screwed on top. It served fine until I wanted to try using lacquers and rattle cans and I was afraid of blowing the whole thing up. 

While I think the risk is very small, I wouldn't feel comfortable with a range hood or bathroom fan either. I know both are popular choices, and I haven't actually heard of any one having a fire related to using them. Just to me having the motor in the airflow makes me squeamish over the what if factor. Even ignoring the fire risk, I also imagine it has to effect the longevity of the motor.

The blower I chose is larger, but the same style used on the Pace booths. It was considerably more expensive than a bathroom fan, but I look at it as a one time purchase. I fully expect that blower will still be going when I'm 90 so it will have cost me about $3 a year.

[aaronw]

Dec 14, 2023 13:56:02 GMT -5 deafpanzer said:

Dec 13, 2023 21:06:23 GMT -5 M1Carbine said:

If you can, Pace spray booths are excellent. I had the huge patriot but downsized to the patriot mini. Yhe kick ass…..period.

-Bob

Echo Bob's comment about Pace booths! They are made in USA too! I choose mid sized booth and it is still big enough for all of my builds so far.

I looked very hard at those Pace booths, they are nice. Ultimately I priced DIY at about half of what Pace was charging, but the mini-Peacekeeper like you have had quite a bit of influence on how I designed mine.


Of course it helps that I already had all the woodworking tools needed to make the booth from working on the house. DIY would not have been a financial advantage otherwise. 

I'm quite surprised at the prices for those Pace booths, I don't recall exactly how much they were when I made mine, but I don't think they have gone up more than $100 or so. With the price increases of lumber, and the blower I used, I could still probably do it cheaper, but not by much.

[deafpanzer]

Yeah, I was surprised to see how much the prices have jumped! I was very fortunate that I bought it at least 12 years ago for $250 with free shipping during a special promotion.

I also use the booth as photo studio as I have magnets to hold the fabric to act as a background.

[kyledehart5]

Dec 14, 2023 16:53:10 GMT -5 deafpanzer said:

Yeah, I was surprised to see how much the prices have jumped! I was very fortunate that I bought it at least 12 years ago for $250 with free shipping during a special promotion.

I also use the booth as photo studio as I have magnets to hold the fabric to act as a background.

$425 at the end of 2022 for the exact one you have. Ask me how I know. But I do love it. It does an excellent job and is nice and roomy. Another recommendation for the Pace here if you have the room and can pull it off.

[tcoat]

Dec 15, 2023 8:00:04 GMT -5 kyledehart5 said:

Dec 14, 2023 16:53:10 GMT -5 deafpanzer said:

Yeah, I was surprised to see how much the prices have jumped! I was very fortunate that I bought it at least 12 years ago for $250 with free shipping during a special promotion.

I also use the booth as photo studio as I have magnets to hold the fabric to act as a background.

$425 at the end of 2022 for the exact one you have. Ask me how I know. But I do love it. It does an excellent job and is nice and roomy. Another recommendation for the Pace here if you have the room and can pull it off.

I looked at Pace when I was shopping. By the time I got one shipped to Canada, paid exchange, all the import fees and taxes the cheapest version was almost $1000 for me. The difference in quality and performance just did not warrant 4 times the price of what I did get!

[kyledehart5]

Dec 15, 2023 8:10:03 GMT -5 tcoat said:

Dec 15, 2023 8:00:04 GMT -5 kyledehart5 said:

$425 at the end of 2022 for the exact one you have. Ask me how I know. But I do love it. It does an excellent job and is nice and roomy. Another recommendation for the Pace here if you have the room and can pull it off.

I looked at Pace when I was shopping. By the time I got one shipped to Canada, paid exchange, all the import fees and taxes the cheapest version was almost $1000 for me. The difference in quality and performance just did not warrant 4 times the price of what I did get!

Thats completely understandable. I didn’t even one paying what I did. But I figured I’d also never need another one, so why not get a nice one. If it was up around 1000 I probably would’ve passed on it too

[tcoat]

Dec 15, 2023 8:11:59 GMT -5 kyledehart5 said:

Dec 15, 2023 8:10:03 GMT -5 tcoat said:

I looked at Pace when I was shopping. By the time I got one shipped to Canada, paid exchange, all the import fees and taxes the cheapest version was almost $1000 for me. The difference in quality and performance just did not warrant 4 times the price of what I did get!

Thats completely understandable. I didn’t even one paying what I did. But I figured I’d also never need another one, so why not get a nice one. If it was up around 1000 I probably would’ve passed on it too

Modeling is a very expensive hobby here in Canada. If there is a kit I want that I just can't get here and I have to bring it in from the US what would cost you $20 could easily exceed $100 by the time it get's to me. The cost of shipping is stupid high from the US. I do not understand how a kit shipped from China can be free shipping with no taxes or duty but if it comes from Detroit (a two hour drive from home) then shipping is $40+ and another $30 in fees. 

[M1Carbine]

Agree, Prices went through the roof. I was a bit shocked as I want to get the original patriot again. Its now a huge chunk of change I cannot justify at this time.

-Bob

[Green KreationZ]

I have seen many people recommend the Patriots, but they demand a pretty sizable price.

[kyledehart5]

Dec 15, 2023 15:35:13 GMT -5 Green KreationZ said:

I have seen many people recommend the Patriots, but they demand a pretty sizable price.

I wasn’t going to buy one but my Wife conspired with my mom and mother-in-law so it was a Christmas present. Glad of the investment after getting it, to be sure. I doubt I’ll ever need another. Fan seems easy to replace too but hopefully it lasts many years.