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Post by rbaer on May 2, 2024 15:03:32 GMT -5
Yup. From a couple of tiny pics in a book on Us tracked vehicles, two pics of an M41 hull with a Cadillac-Gage turret with 105 mm gun. It was a proposal aimed at M41 users around the world seeking to modernize the M41 at reasonable cost, since the M41 was basically reliable and robust but armed with a pop gun. I liked the look of it a lot, so I pulled one of the Tamiya M41 kits from the stash and got after it, taking some artistic license with the hull itself to "modernize" it too. I used some Bradley (?) tracks I received in error, scratched the fenders and added some additional glacis armor, giving me a good starting point while I pondered how to approach the turret. Pre turret: IMG_4258 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4257 by Russel Baer, on Flickr Googling "Cadillac-Gage" got me examples of the V-150 with different turrets, one of which looked a lot like the one on the M41 in the tiny pic I had, so I ordered the Hobby Boss kit and started on the Challenger. Well, the HB kit showed up, and the turret was a 2-man turret, about the size of what's on a Panzer2. Hmmm..... Then I realized that since I have next to nothing for actual reference, why not just scale up the V-150 turret, using my pic, and see what happens? So I got started. Size and proportions are guesstimated from the pic, shape too. So far I have the shell and mantlet, no top. I'm thinking I'll model the roof and hatches from the little Hobby Boss part. Turret shell: IMG_4282 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4283 by Russel Baer, on Flickr The turret looks more like what's on the "Stingray" than anything else, but on an M41 hull looks kind of big, very aggressive. PS: I just Googled some more and found a pic of one used by the Thai army. I guess somebody bought some....
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handiabled
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Post by handiabled on May 3, 2024 2:27:40 GMT -5
Bookmarked!
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Post by rbaer on May 5, 2024 15:59:22 GMT -5
I already have a correction. It turns out a bunch (more than one?) of these things are/were in service with the Royal Thai Army, and pics of them are clearly showing the mantlet centered in the turret's nose. So I filled the cutout and have a template in place for the new cutout, which I'll make after all the glue and putty is truly set. Pic shows new mantlet location (masking tape) IMG_4284 by Russel Baer, on Flickr I'm also noodling how I might make the mantlet moveable. Should have thought of that earlier though.
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Post by deafpanzer on May 6, 2024 8:57:35 GMT -5
Another cool project for us to follow and learn. You have my attention as well!
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Post by rbaer on May 7, 2024 17:35:21 GMT -5
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handiabled
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Post by handiabled on May 8, 2024 9:04:55 GMT -5
The turret look fantastic!
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Post by rbaer on May 10, 2024 16:00:32 GMT -5
I'm still working on the basic turret structure. I did the mantlet, blocked in the bulge for the commander's station and a basic gunner's sight housing. Then I shot some primer to check seams, whether I had my basic angles close, did I do the horizontal surfaces parallel, and are they parallel to the hull, all those tricky things. I was happy enough. Raw primer: IMG_4295 by Russel Baer, on Flickr Then I went back and, using MrSurfacer 500 that's nearly dried up (MrSurfacer 50?) filled gaps and seams. After that I block sanded to get my sharp edges back and started comparing to pics again. There's a couple of areas I'm not totally happy with but I'll either fix them or move on, and wait for a kit of somebody to 3D print the turret and make all this moot. Anyway, after sanding and minor corrections I have this, with a mock-up gun tube that's actually the correct length: IMG_4297 by Russel Baer, on Flickr And where the hatches will probably go: IMG_4299 by Russel Baer, on Flickr I'm very happy with how the mantlet fits. IMG_4298 by Russel Baer, on Flickr
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Post by reserve on May 12, 2024 0:41:55 GMT -5
I always thought the designers of the M-41 had to be WW II vintage to make a tank so undergunned. This project, as most all of yours, shows vision that I lack. I'm most impressed
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handiabled
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Post by handiabled on May 12, 2024 3:23:22 GMT -5
Your scratch work is really top notch!
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Post by stikpusher on May 12, 2024 11:24:50 GMT -5
I always thought the designers of the M-41 had to be WW II vintage to make a tank so undergunned. This project, as most all of yours, shows vision that I lack. I'm most impressed Actually the M41 was developed during the Korean War. It probably was one of the best armed light tank designs to ever be operational. It was a huge step up from the M24 Chaffee, which was an improvement over the M3 & M5 Stuart’s. The high velocity 76mm gun was quite effective in its’ time, as would later be proven in Vietnam where ARVN M41s destroyed “superior” NVA T-54s/Type 59s as well as inferior PT-76s. I don’t recall reading if they ever encountered T-34/85s, but those being less well armored than a T-54. From what I’ve read, a modern armor piercing round with even better capabilities was developed for the Danish M41s in the late Cold War. Edit- During the Bay of Pigs Invasion, the exiles invasion force had a platoon of 5 M41s that did engage communist T-34/85s and had no problem knocking those out.
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Post by buddho on May 12, 2024 12:13:56 GMT -5
What a cool conversion.
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Post by rbaer on May 12, 2024 15:00:52 GMT -5
I should have put this pic up, from the book "US Military Tracked Vehicles" by Fred Crismon: IMG_4293 by Russel Baer, on Flickr This was done more than once but wasn't as successful as it was hoped to be. There are some pics of a couple pf Royal Thai Army M41s with the Stingray turret, but I don't know if they were operational or done by some goofy dude in ordinance or the Thai version of "Monster Garage".
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Post by rbaer on Jun 5, 2024 17:51:23 GMT -5
Well, progress, mostly. I decided to actually try and build this as close to it actually was when built. Make sense? So that meant an actual M41 hull, probably the -A3, so I pulled my last Tamiya M41 out and started a hull. It got some ebay tracks and I've started correcting some of the worst parts of the kit, but I really don't want to scratch the whole thing. I also have the turret further along, basing the work so far on a couple of pics of Thai Stingrays and one line drawing I found online. I made the turret hatches operable in case I want to add figs later. The big parts still to do are the turret basket and gun tube, but I feel good about what I have done so far. Most of the weld beads are stretched sprue. IMG_4311 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4310 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4312 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4313 by Russel Baer, on Flickr
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Post by handiabled on Jun 6, 2024 9:27:28 GMT -5
The weld seams and working hatch covers look outstanding!
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Post by rbaer on Jun 6, 2024 16:47:57 GMT -5
Thanks! I had an idea about how to use the original hull I was starting this build with. IMG_4319 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4318 by Russel Baer, on Flickr It kind of looks like a baby M103. It probably wouldn't work with the real things since the M48 had a much bigger turret ring, but it looks neat.
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Post by rbaer on Jun 8, 2024 19:27:25 GMT -5
Tubery! IMG_4323 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4322 by Russel Baer, on Flickr Most of the tube is from a Takom Chieftain, the Marksman kit that I bought for the turret. It had the gun tank's barrel in the box though, lucky me. It's actually swapped end for end and hacked up, with the bellows make from rings cut from tube stock and the muzzle brake from a Trumpeter Centauro. All that is over a piece of brass tube to keep it straight and strong enough to handle. I coated the bellows with MrSurfacer and will clean it up later. And just for giggles, I did up a tube for the Toon Tank: IMG_4325 by Russel Baer, on Flickr This thing makes me giggle.
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Post by george on Jun 8, 2024 20:50:00 GMT -5
Well done, Russ. And great scratch build skills as always.
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Post by handiabled on Jun 9, 2024 1:34:43 GMT -5
They both turned out excellent! The scratched bellows is really outstanding
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Post by Mike on Jun 18, 2024 4:43:46 GMT -5
This is seriously AWESOME!
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Post by rbaer on Jun 25, 2024 15:32:13 GMT -5
Bobo's been busy. I was about to get stuck since I couldn't find any actual pics of the Stingray that showed the details I needed. Often, like in the case of the KRAB that's sitting up above me with a few other stalled projects, I come to a screeching halt for lack of references, inspiration, interest.... you get the idea. But I thought that if I couldn't find good pics, maybe I just ought to go ahead and "interpret" the pics I do have. I have in fact determined that the turret pictured in my original pic of the first (?) example is subtly different than the Stingray turrets pictured as used by the Thai Army, as well as the pics of the Thai examples of the same conversion. So I made up the stowage basket on the turret rear, the two racks on the sides and the shell ejection port on the left side of the turret. Next-ish will be the smoke launchers and the upper mantlet cover. While I was dorking around I also cleaned up the upper glacis, getting ready for headlights and such. IMG_4343 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4341 by Russel Baer, on Flickr
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Post by handiabled on Jun 27, 2024 8:19:45 GMT -5
I really like the turret additions Russ they look phenomenal
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Post by deafpanzer on Jun 29, 2024 9:04:55 GMT -5
I can't get over the unusual shape of its turret! Looking good and I look forward to more updates too.
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Post by rbaer on Jun 29, 2024 11:03:28 GMT -5
Thanks guys. Andy, that turret shape was difficult to approximate. Now that I have a few better pics I can see a few things I could have done differently, but the major difference doesn't really pop in the pic of the original demo, but is very apparent in pics of the Thai Shingrays. I'm thinking (I'll keep telling my self this) that the difference is due to production difficulties and cost. Yeah, that'll work, yeah.... Today I'm calling the turret done. Lifting eyes, mantlet upper cover (splash shield?), turret MG and smoke launchers are all on. I tried to do it as close to pics as I could but there is definitely some conjectural stuff going on. OF course now Panda or HobbyBoss will probably kit a Stingray. As it is today: IMG_4351 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4352 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4353 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4354 by Russel Baer, on Flickr Of course looking at the pics I realize I should probably add some detail the the insides of the hatches if I want to display them open and with figs..... Next time I go to the bench I'll think about it as I start on the hull.
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Post by stikpusher on Jun 29, 2024 15:41:48 GMT -5
Very nice! Are you planning any changes to the hull such as converting it to a diesel powered M48A3/M60 type engine deck with fender mounted air filter housings?
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Post by Mike on Jun 29, 2024 16:57:38 GMT -5
I'm just in awe of what you've built here, Russ. You always find ways to inspire and impress me with what you do.
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Post by rbaer on Jun 30, 2024 14:06:53 GMT -5
Very nice! Are you planning any changes to the hull such as converting it to a diesel powered M48A3/M60 type engine deck with fender mounted air filter housings? I'm going to leave this one as is, gas powered. The pic I'm working from pre-dates the diesel conversions. I would like to cut the fenders back though, I like the look and I think the one in the pic is a M41A3 so I could get away with it. I'm also pondering on where to put the muffler for the aux generator engine. I have info on which chassis numbers had it in front and in back, and fair pics of both setups. As far as doing one of the diesel powered tanks, I have a couple more of the kits in the stash.....
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Post by rbaer on Jul 11, 2024 19:20:22 GMT -5
I did add interior detail to the turret hatches, but the fun stuff is on the hull. I made up some mufflers from thick Eastern Express KV hull parts. I had the remains of a kit that I only used the turret out of, so now I can toss the rest. It's junk. I cut six rectangular pieces from the hull floor, made two stacks of three and let them dry overnight. Then I shaped two mufflers, added the Tamiya ends after cleaning them up and made inlets from sprue. I guessed on the inlets since all the pics I can find show the heat shields on, which will be the case with this model too. On the hull front, I got the headlights, mounts, splash guards and brush guards all on, detailed the union of the upper and lower glacis and added the upper lifting rings. Fenders are cut as was done on later build numbers, braces and stiffeners added from stock. I thought about making headlight brush guards from brass but I think the kit parts, after LOTS of thinning, look just fine. Pics so far: IMG_4360 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4359 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4361 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4364 by Russel Baer, on Flickr More when I can.
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Post by handiabled on Jul 12, 2024 2:07:58 GMT -5
So many little details you've added I wouldn't have caught in a million years. Looks outstanding
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Post by rbaer on Jul 16, 2024 18:13:21 GMT -5
I'm close enough to primer time now to taste it. I think all I need to do is add two cable brackets and the cable. Then I can get into the other two, three? projects I have in line and the two others in basic color that are ready for detail painting and weathering. So. Many. Models. Anyway, pics as of tonight. Muffler heat shields are simply kit parts thinned until I could almost see through them, then trimmed to size. The tool rack came out of a DEF M47 set. There were two in the bag.... IMG_4367 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4366 by Russel Baer, on Flickr IMG_4368 by Russel Baer, on Flickr
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Post by kyledehart5 on Jul 16, 2024 20:30:50 GMT -5
Nice progress. Primer is always a happy step
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