venom1
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Oct 10, 2012 2:40:03 GMT -5
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Post by venom1 on Jul 18, 2014 0:50:47 GMT -5
Howdy folks, got a question I am hoping someone here can answer. In late September I am planning on embarking on a modelling project which will push my skills to their limits (and probably beyond!). I have decided to have a crack at a large scale build and so I am going to get stuck into the Revell 1/32 AH-64, and will be doing an Alpha model, as a Delta will require a complete rebuild of the side sponsons (among other things) which I am just not up to!! I have the Verlinden update set and the Flightpath set both made for this kit, but that is pretty much all there is out there for this kit (surprisingly), and the cockpit alone is barely even addressed, let alone other parts of the airframe. This means, with the level of detail I want to achieve, I will need to scratch build a whole bunch of stuff. Now the key to this is obviously first and foremost, reference! I have managed to track down PDF copies of the Operators manual and the Maintenance manual for the real deal, and they both have lots of pics which will be a big help. I am also starting to accrue plenty of photos. So, my questions are these: 1. I will obviously not have access to dimensional information for the majority of what I will need to scratch. It therefore seems to me that I will need to "guesstimate" the size of pretty much everything. Is there a good way to do this, or do you just make it and see if it looks right, and chuck it away if it is the wrong size? The reason I ask is because there seem to be so many scratch build projects out there that seem to be bang on the money and I don't know how they do it!! 2. The kit decals are pretty basic and ordinary. How best to tackle this problem? I have ordered some 1/48 markings From Twobobs for the Apache, and was planning on doing a high res scan then reprinting them at 1/32 scale (for my own use only of course!). I know the quality will not be as good as printing from a vector file, and I am worried I will lose clarity doing it this way. The other option is that I am trying to find out if the Apache shares the same basic stencilling with the UH-60 and/or the AH-1W as I know I can get decals for these (albeit 1/35, but I can live with that). By going this way I will only have to "custom" the specific markings. These are my two main ones at the moment. Would appreciate some feedback and ideas on this one guys. It's a bit of a daunting project so I need all the help and suggestions I can get!! Cheers, Sam
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Post by deafpanzer on Jul 18, 2014 12:29:36 GMT -5
Sounds like a huge project... I am not into scratch building myself so I hope somebody answers your question. But have you ever checked this company as they sell great decals for helicopters only in various decals. I have used one of their decal sets on my Little Bird earlier and they were just GREAT... www.fireballmodels.infowww.cobracompany.com/decals.htm
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vlpbruce
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Post by vlpbruce on Jul 19, 2014 15:26:00 GMT -5
When I scratch something I don't have good dimensions on, I get a smaller scale kit of the same subject and take measurements off of that. Using smaller scale parts also help me visualize how it goes together. I like your ideas for the decals.
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Post by dupes on Jul 19, 2014 16:13:38 GMT -5
I'm with Andy on the decals - Cobra Company is probably your best bet. Apaches are fairly devoid of markings as it is, no? Should be able to get away with "generic" stuff.
I can't believe that Trumpeter hasn't done a 1/35 AH-64 to go along with all of their other helos.
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Post by fightnjoe on Jul 19, 2014 17:15:34 GMT -5
sam all i can offer is what i do.
when i was working on the hawk alot of what i did was guesstimation. but it was an educated guesstimation. when working if there was a question to the size of the part i was trying to create i found something that was "concrete" with the kit parts and then worked the part so it appeared the right size. make no mistake, there was a lot of stuff that is out of scale. however the overall impression seemed good to me.
the eye test works very well if you have a known and can work off that to create an unknown.
joe
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Jul 21, 2014 1:08:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the response guys! Andy - Thanks for those links bud! Between both sites I should be able to cobble together enough markings to get most of the markings sorted. They are mostly all 1/35 but as I said before I am not fussed as the size difference between 35th and 32nd will be negligible. Cheers! Bruce - Yeah, great idea, I thought of that idea too after I had posted. Great minds think alike!! I have plenty of AM stuff in both PE and resin for my 1/72 Academy Apache, so I will use them as a guide as well. Dupes - I am a little apprehensive to deal with Cobra Company as he is a pain in the backside, insofar as he does not accept credit card payments outside of the US. This means doing a money order which is a bit of a headache and it costs me money just to do MO, which means additional cost on top of the stuff I am buying. Still, he is one of only a few options I have out there so I guess I will have to grin and bear it! On the upside, I have dealt with Joe at Fireball models before and he is a great guy and happily takes CC payments!! The Apache does have numerous markings around the place and they will all be pretty visible in 1/32! I probably wont nail them perfectly, but I want to try and get them as close as possible. And yes, I too cannot believe that Trumpy hasn't done a 1/35 Apache yet. Murphy's modelling law says that they will release one the day after I finish mine..... Joe - Yeah, thinking that will be pretty much the case buddy! Guesstimation it is!! Plus, at the end of the day, the Mk 1 eyeball is surprisingly accurate!! Cheers, Sam
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thenylongag
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Post by thenylongag on Jul 22, 2014 20:08:37 GMT -5
G'day Ven-brother-1,
Scaling is a bar-stuard, lots of pictures is the key.
Find something in the picture you can guesstimate the most accurate and get everything else from that.
Scratch buddy scratch, remember we don't make mistakes we have happy accidents
Gag
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Post by dupes on Jul 22, 2014 21:01:22 GMT -5
Dupes - I am a little apprehensive to deal with Cobra Company as he is a pain in the backside, insofar as he does not accept credit card payments outside of the US. This means doing a money order which is a bit of a headache and it costs me money just to do MO, which means additional cost on top of the stuff I am buying. Still, he is one of only a few options I have out there so I guess I will have to grin and bear it! On the upside, I have dealt with Joe at Fireball models before and he is a great guy and happily takes CC payments!! The Apache does have numerous markings around the place and they will all be pretty visible in 1/32! I probably wont nail them perfectly, but I want to try and get them as close as possible. And yes, I too cannot believe that Trumpy hasn't done a 1/35 Apache yet. Murphy's modelling law says that they will release one the day after I finish mine..... Didn't realize that CC was such a pain in the butt that way. Worst case scenario - send me the money and I can order stuff and then mail it to you. Probably both quicker AND cheaper for you? Unless Fireball can take care of you - then no fancy footwork necessary! Yeah, isn't that always the way?
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Jul 22, 2014 23:51:25 GMT -5
G'day Ven-brother-1, Scaling is a bar-stuard, lots of pictures is the key. Find something in the picture you can guesstimate the most accurate and get everything else from that. Scratch buddy scratch, remember we don't make mistakes we have happy accidents Gag Gag, Thanks for the advice brother! I have a feeling I am in for a bit of pain, as I have never attempted something like this before, but I'm hoping there will be a fair bit of joy and achievement thrown in there as well!! Planning on starting the build late September/early November, after our local model show, so watch this space! Cheers, Sam
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Jul 22, 2014 23:58:31 GMT -5
Didn't realize that CC was such a pain in the butt that way. Worst case scenario - send me the money and I can order stuff and then mail it to you. Probably both quicker AND cheaper for you? Unless Fireball can take care of you - then no fancy footwork necessary! Yeah, isn't that always the way? Thanks for the kind offer buddy, will keep you in mind. I have a mate here in Perth who is going to be starting an OH-58D build at the same time (he is my inspiration for starting this build), and he wants a few odds and ends from CC so we will probably go in together and share the pain and the cost together. If that falls through I will be in contact!! Will definitely be getting some stuff off Joe at Fireball, but he does not have any resin upgrades for the Apache which Cobra Company does, so unfortunately if I want that I need to go to CC. Yeah, mark my words, once I get beyond the half way mark with my build, Trumpy will probably release both the A and D in 1/32!!! Cheers, Sam
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Post by fightnjoe on Jul 23, 2014 8:10:36 GMT -5
sam in all honesty, if i can do it anyone can. fabricating your own parts is fun and kind of satisfying. most are just combinations of simple shapes.
go for it. you can do it.
joe
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Post by dupes on Jul 23, 2014 8:54:39 GMT -5
If that's what it's going to take, then get building! I want one!!
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Jul 24, 2014 0:42:32 GMT -5
sam in all honesty, if i can do it anyone can. fabricating your own parts is fun and kind of satisfying. most are just combinations of simple shapes. go for it. you can do it. joe Joe my friend, your inspirational work is part of the reason I am having a crack at this. If I can do half as good a job as your good self I will be a happy camper!! Cheers, Sam
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Jul 24, 2014 0:44:12 GMT -5
If that's what it's going to take, then get building! I want one!! I see what you did there...... You may be onto something!! Cheers, Sam
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 2:23:56 GMT -5
Good luck with this Sam , I'm sure you can pull it off And think of this way, yours will always be more accurate than one from Trumpy. BTW, Did you know that Trumpy was Chinese for " just change the decals they'll never know" Ive a 1/24 Airfix Harrier in the stash that I keep looking at and putting back on the shelf I did speak to a guy at Telford who had fully scratched all the missing detail for one but he wanted me first to join the IMPS and then the Harrier SIG before he'd discuss what he did... Really... C'on .. It's a hobby man...
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Jul 24, 2014 7:15:23 GMT -5
Good luck with this Sam , I'm sure you can pull it off And think of this way, yours will always be more accurate than one from Trumpy. BTW, Did you know that Trumpy was Chinese for " just change the decals they'll never know" Ive a 1/24 Airfix Harrier in the stash that I keep looking at and putting back on the shelf I did speak to a guy at Telford who had fully scratched all the missing detail for one but he wanted me first to join the IMPS and then the Harrier SIG before he'd discuss what he did... Really... C'on .. It's a hobby man... Will never understand people like that! Part of the joy of this hobby is sharing your knowledge with those around you and seeing them improve because of it. What does he have to gain by making you jump through those hoops? Is he on a commission or sumpthin'?....... goose. As far as the Airfix Harrier goes, I say go for it! If I am willing to make a start, I am sure you can do wonders Stevo! Cheers, Sam
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Post by fightnjoe on Jul 24, 2014 7:47:14 GMT -5
sam in all honesty, if i can do it anyone can. fabricating your own parts is fun and kind of satisfying. most are just combinations of simple shapes. go for it. you can do it. joe Joe my friend, your inspirational work is part of the reason I am having a crack at this. If I can do half as good a job as your good self I will be a happy camper!! Cheers, Sam sam you will do fine with it. i am humbled i have inspired anyone to try this type of thing. i do have two suggestions: take your time. if you dont like something, redo it. the only one you need to satisfy is yourself. have fun with it. joe
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Jul 24, 2014 9:37:19 GMT -5
Thanks Joe, I will take heed of your advice wholeheartedly! This will be a long road and I don't want to get discouraged! Couple more questions: 1. I am planning on using Archer rivets to redo at least some of the airframe. Any advice on the best supplier (remember will be shipping to Australia) and are there different sizes? What would be best suited for a 1/32 Apache? (Yes I cheated, got a couple of questions in question 1! ) 2. I will probably need a lot of plastic stock. Any suggestions on what I need to buy as far as sheet, tube, etc? Decent suppliers? Thanks for your input with all this lads, slowly trying to gather together all I need for the project come September. This evening I just bought 1 GB worth of manuals for the AH-64 and AH-1 off ebay for about $17 landed. Should be a helpful investment! Cheers, Sam
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Post by fightnjoe on Jul 24, 2014 12:35:27 GMT -5
i cannot help with the archer rivits. never used them before. i would suggest as far as the white stuff a mixture of rod from .01 up to .06, strip mixture from .01x.01 up to .04x.156, rod from 1/32 up to 3/32, you will most likely need some sheet stock. go to your nearest hardware store and get a mixture of the small "for sale" signs and the larger ones. they should be plastic sheet. that should get you at least started. you will without a doubt find that once you get going you will need more stuff but this will get you started and cover a number of bases.
joe
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2014 12:52:19 GMT -5
Ive a 1/24 Airfix Harrier in the stash that I keep looking at and putting back on the shelf As far as the Airfix Harrier goes, I say go for it! If I am willing to make a start, I am sure you can do wonders Stevo! Cheers, Sam Tell yer what then Buddy, when you start your Apache, I'll start the Jump Jet, we can sorta Dual Build them , deal eh?
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Jul 24, 2014 17:56:04 GMT -5
i cannot help with the archer rivits. never used them before. i would suggest as far as the white stuff a mixture of rod from .01 up to .06, strip mixture from .01x.01 up to .04x.156, rod from 1/32 up to 3/32, you will most likely need some sheet stock. go to your nearest hardware store and get a mixture of the small "for sale" signs and the larger ones. they should be plastic sheet. that should get you at least started. you will without a doubt find that once you get going you will need more stuff but this will get you started and cover a number of bases. joe Thanks Joe, that will get me started at least. As you said, I will no doubt need more along the way but at least I can organise myself a starting batch! Cheers, Sam
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Jul 24, 2014 17:59:00 GMT -5
As far as the Airfix Harrier goes, I say go for it! If I am willing to make a start, I am sure you can do wonders Stevo! Cheers, Sam Tell yer what then Buddy, when you start your Apache, I'll start the Jump Jet, we can sorta Dual Build them , deal eh? Done and done. It's a deal! Are you sure you know what yer gettin' yerself into?? Cheers, Sam
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Jul 28, 2014 23:39:19 GMT -5
Righto, next question: Anyone here printed their own decals? What program (preferably free) do you recommend for doing the artwork? Any good links or hints for how to go about printing them? OH-58 decals are on the way from Fireball, as is the 1/35 MRC AH-1W I picked up on ebay which will be the engine donor for the Apache. Huzzah! Cheers, Sam
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Post by fightnjoe on Jul 29, 2014 7:06:48 GMT -5
ive done my own. ive used the "paint" program on windows and photoshop to do them. mine were very simple styles and they worked ok.
joe
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Post by 406 Silverado on Jul 29, 2014 7:43:04 GMT -5
A bit late here. Some great suggestions from the fellas. First thing in scratch building is to get as much reference material as possible and then study them. Different angles help a lot too. In guesstimating you can use other parts etc as reference for size and placement. Rivets you can make yourself. I have been making my own rivets and N&B for years. All you need for rivets is the correct diameter metal rod with the end as flat as possible with out rounded edges. A hard rubber mat or block. This is important because the rivets will be pressed into this. I'll try to get some pics of this set up in a minute. Be right back.......
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Post by 406 Silverado on Jul 29, 2014 8:28:35 GMT -5
damn. Took some how to pics put I can't upload to the pc...figures it would die on me now.
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Post by bullardino on Jul 29, 2014 8:33:03 GMT -5
To do your own decals it is better to use vector drawing software instead of "raster" ones. Vectors are freely scalable without losing definition. I use Adobe Illustrator, but an open source vector drawing software like InkScape will work too. If you're going to print the decals with an inkjet printer don't forget to add a couple of fixing layers on it. I use future but any gloss coat will work. I did the decals on the tail of this japanese Willow as the original ones were so old that they broke in pieces when I soaked them.
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Jul 30, 2014 0:32:15 GMT -5
Rob - Thanks for the advice Boss, at the mo I am trying to scrounge up as much reference for the Apache as I can. It's actually proving surprisingly difficult to find photo reference for the Alpha model cockpit. I have a lot of the main instrument panels in front and back, but the side consoles and directly behind the seats are proving quite elusive! Would appreciate some pics of how you do your rivets, I imagine it will come in quite useful! Luigi - Thanks for the heads up on Inkscape, will look into it. Love the markings on the Willow, they came up a treat! Gives me added inspiration to do my own! Cheers, Sam
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Post by 406 Silverado on Aug 3, 2014 16:40:27 GMT -5
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venom1
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Post by venom1 on Aug 6, 2014 0:43:47 GMT -5
Thanks for that Boss, that's a handy tip! Will probably use Archer rivets for the situations where I have long lines of rivets to replace, and your technique for the situations where I have half a dozen here or there. Cheers, Sam
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