Dragon SU-76i done and dusted 07/01 01/07

[dierk]

Now then, this arrived just over a week ago:



After doing an inbox review of the kit, Thomas from panzer-modell.de sent it to me with the request to do a build review. As it's supposed be done quicker than my usual tectonic pace, I put everything else on hold and dug right in.

I'm not going to give you a full load of sprue shots as most of the parts have been recycled from other kits. You get 4 sprues from the StuG III Ausf. G, 3 PzKpfw III sprues, one from a PzKpfw IV kit and one from the 1941 T-34/76. Also included is a fret of PE, some decals and 2 lengths of DS tracks as well as a lower tub - I'm guessing PzKpfw III Ausf L or the StuG equivalent. Notice I did not mention any clear parts - more about that later...
The only new sprue is this one:



Unfortunately, that is the one sprue that really lets the kit down and is more like the kind of stuff DML put out in the '90s than a brand-spanking new release. But first things first. As it is a build review I'm going to go as OOB as possible. Moreover, a kit retailing for about 65€ in these parts should not need any more spending on it, right?

The lower tub is beautifully detailed. Apart from the first and last suspension arms they can be made moveable by snipping off the locating pin moulded onto the tub. If you're not bothered you can save yourself having to clean and fit the torsion bars and just snip them off. One thing to watch out for is that they are sided and have a rectangular locating hole for the swinging arms to sit in. the locating hole should be pointing down and to the back.



The 6 tabs marked in the picture need to be removed, not that the instructions tell you this...



I'm actually not far off the finish line on this one, but I haven't taken any more pictures yet. Plan is to finish all the sub-assemblies and then take more pics.

If you're planning to add this to your stash, don't spend your money yet - just wait for one of the next updates

[chromdome35]

Great Info!

I'm eagerly looking forward to your next update.

[panzerjager2]

Cool update my friend

[deafpanzer]

Great choice!!! Pulling my fav Russian vodka along...

[TRM]

Nice one Dierk! I have been curious about this since I received Serzh's from Master Club. Funny how none of the previous Pz.III/IV kit mention removing the tabs! DML misdirections! Looking forward to seeing the final construction and how works out.

[Leon]

Off to a good start Dierk!

[thug626]

That's unfortunate about the one new sprue. Nonetheless, count me in.

[dierk]

Dec 15, 2016 13:22:53 GMT -5 chromdome35 said:

Great Info!

I'm eagerly looking forward to your next update.

Welcome to my little corner of madness - you can stop the forward bit and just look

Dec 15, 2016 14:59:54 GMT -5 panzerjager2 said:

Cool update my friend

Grab a seat PJ, it's about to get ranty...

Dec 15, 2016 18:15:15 GMT -5 deafpanzer said:

Great choice!!! Pulling my fav Russian vodka along... [/quote

Nastrovye Andy. Seems to me the people at Dragon did too - before 'creating' the SU sprue...

Dec 15, 2016 19:06:25 GMT -5 TRM said:

Nice one Dierk! I have been curious about this since I received Serzh's from Master Club. Funny how none of the previous Pz.III/IV kit mention removing the tabs! DML misdirections! Looking forward to seeing the final construction and how works out.

Been curious about it myself Todd - I'm currently also working on a version using the MC conversion, giving me a great opportunity to compare the two.
Well instructionwise DML has a reputation to live down to

Dec 15, 2016 19:08:49 GMT -5 Leon said:

Off to a good start Dierk!

Cheers Leon, put your feet up and make youself at home.

Dec 15, 2016 20:54:17 GMT -5 thug626 said:

That's unfortunate about the one new sprue. Nonetheless, count me in.

Hmmm 'unfortunate' is quite far down the list of words I'd use to describe this sprue...

But first let's have a look at the nice stuff - basically anything that isn't SU-76i related:
Engine deck - really nice, but some very tiny bits to fit - optivisor city!



Dragon 'in'struction alert! They will have you add all the gubbins to the back plate before fitting it - this way heart-break lies (or high blood pressure, alcohol, depression, swearing...take your pick) especially if you've waited for the glue to set first! The best way would be to fit the back plate first and then insert parts A5 and A6 from the top - tight, but doable. I realised there was going to be a problem after I'd glued those parts in place - by the time I'd wriggled them in place the glue on the back plate had set far enough for me not being able to get rid of a gap around the idler adjustments.



Slowly appoaching WTF area now: so the casemate with the gun will fit later, you have to cut a piece out of the Panzer III roof. There is a drawing in the instructions showing you where to cut, but it's not to scale so you have to rely on the measurements given, and get this: one cut is supposed to be made 8.2mm from the edge...good luck with that Thankfully, it's not crucial to get the cut spot on. You are also told to cut off a few pins and fill a couple of locating holes - don't bother: this area will be hidden under the casemate:



And here it is with the three bits that make up the upper hull dry-fitted:



From this point on it'll become increasingly unlikely that I'll ever get a review kit sent ever again
The kit actually provides you with two sets of fenders/mudguards - one from the Panzer III and one from the StuG. Now, during the conversion process from Panzer III/StuG III to SU-76i the soviets removed all the tool clamps. Of course the kit parts are littered with mounting holes. Dragon should have included new mudguards with tiny holes left from where the clamps were fitted. Back in the real world, however, you get to fill all those holes with either putty, or rod...what an elegant solution



Now, the one original sprue...how shall I put this in such a way that won't get be banned from this forum? Whoever is responsible for making the mould, and the guy in quality control who passed it must have been MFH!
M = female parent
H = altered state of mind brought on by alcohol/drug abuse
I'll let you guess what 'F' stands for

But,make up you own minds. I'll be directly comparing the MC resin conversion with the DML parts.
DML casemate - what are those weird cut-outs above the view slit and the pistol port?



MC - ooh, look no cut-outs and what's this? Welds?



The quality of detail and feel of the plastic is reminiscent of 90's Eastern European kits. The plastic is both brittle and marks very easily. Detail is soft at best.
Just look at the roof:



MC's version:



The four hinges on the hatch on the back are not sided - you get four identical parts, so you'll have to glue two back to front:



And you-know-who:



But this kit can multi task, not just does it manage to disappoint in the quality stakes, no it's also inaccurate and badly fitting!
The front plate was 35mm thick on the 1:1 version, so stands to reason it should be 1mm in this scale - oh, and the edge should be torch-cut (DML on right):







Both the kit gun and the mantlet are too big:











I'll rant about the tool boxes and fuel tanks next time - stay tuned. PB's not uploading at the mo, so all the pics are from my HD - I'll edit this post once PB's up and running again.

[chromdome35]

Nice update and review.

This sounds like a kit I won't buy!

[S e r z h]

Dierk - thank you for an interesting story!
Basic dimensions model Dragon (looking at pictures) - good.
This is a good start, but will need a work rasp and sandpaper.

Unfortunately , still do not have a good model (easy to assemble and authentic) the this SPG.
Each conversion, this kit - have their pros and cons...

[dierk]

Dec 16, 2016 13:34:58 GMT -5 chromdome35 said:

Nice update and review.

This sounds like a kit I won't buy!

Yup, there are better kits to spend you hard-earned on!

Dec 16, 2016 15:35:59 GMT -5 S e r z h said:

Dierk - thank you for an interesting story!
Basic dimensions model Dragon (looking at pictures) - good.
This is a good start, but will need a work rasp and sandpaper.

Unfortunately , still do not have a good model (easy to assemble and authentic) the this SPG.
Each conversion, this kit - have their pros and cons...

Glad you're enjoying it Serzh! You are right about the pros and cons - but in my opinion the cons massively outweigh the pros in this kit!

Talking of cons: the fuel tanks...what posessed DML to think that two-part tanks are acceptable in this day and age?

DML SU-76i on the left, MC in middle, and DML ISU-152 with the cast-on handles removed:



And very soft detail! SU on left, ISU on right (the MC version requires you to add your own straps):

[deafpanzer]

Crazy about two pieces fuel drums... just like gun barrels! That's why many of us buy aftermarket barrels. Maybe we should be making and selling Russian fuel tanks... we would have been rich by now!

Making good process at your end!

[dierk]

Dec 18, 2016 0:16:56 GMT -5 deafpanzer said:

Crazy about two pieces fuel drums... just like gun barrels! That's why many of us buy aftermarket barrels. Maybe we should be making and selling Russian fuel tanks... we would have been rich by now!

Making good process at your end!

Funny you should mention two-piece gun barrels Andy - it's got one of those as well!

[dierk]

I think we've established by now that I don't rate this kit. But it bears repeating: I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY HATE THIS KIT!!!

OK, let this continue - the sooner I get this finished the sooner I can get back to building something I enjoy.

So, tool boxes...the kindest thing I can say about this subject is that, yes, there are some. But, I think they are:



But judge for yourselves. This is what they look like on the sprue:



Pretty bad huh? Much worse close-up though:



The top hinges are barely visible using an optivisor - camera didn't pick them up though. To make matters worse (like it needs it) the solitary attachment point is where one of them should be.

The brackets used to fix the boxes to the mudguards? DML considers them to be surplus to requirements - Masterclub didn't:



More soon...

[dierk]

Soon is now.

The dated feel this kit exudes continues with the mantlet. Part E15 - the bit you get to stick the gun in - doesn't fit without removing an estimated 2mm off of the top of the gunmount - the bit that'll be inside the mantlet.
The bullet-proof bolts that have to be added to the mantlet after the spinter shield's been fitted as provided in the kit are the kind you're supposed to shave off the sprue - sorry, didn't happen, will never look good. There aren't even any indicators where on the mantlet you're supposed to fit them, instead there is a drawing in the instructions to guide you. I used the MC part as a template - that has indentations cast in that just need to be drilled out using a 0.55mm bit. The bolts themselves are spares from the MC set:



The fit of the cast mantlet is vague and bad. You get one minute locting lug with a less than positive fit to mate the two - but no matter what you do, you will end up with a gap. The size of the gap depends on how much clampage you managed to apply:



The two PE parts MA11 and MA13 that represent the plates welded to the front need to be shortened by a guesstimated 3mm - or the cast mantlet will fit even worse:

More clean-up required, but a start's been made adding the multitude of missing welds...



I am totally puzzled by what made Dragon get it this desperately wrong. Should we be worried that this is a sign of things to come, or was it just a slip-up? The decent thing to do for DML would be to scrap the mould and start again - using the MC conversion to base it on. Failing that, massively reduce the RRP!

I mean, just look at this! III is the headlight, nice bit of flash. BTW, no mention in the instructions that you need to drill a hole to fit it - just an arrow pointing in the general direction of its location. II are the backs of the hinges for the rear hatch. And you'll never guess what I is...the headlight lense! Even the instructions show it with the correct pattern in the glass - the kit part is just a smooth disc:



Go on, ask me if I would recommend this kit...

DML has also just released the German version of the SU-76i with Panzer III cupola. The weird thing is though: it comes with Winterketten - not in the shape of DS tracks, but actual MAGIC TRACKS...

[Tobi]

Thanks for your faithful and straight judgement Dierk.

Being already suspicious against the folks at Dragon from past experience and observations regarding that kind of "kit making", this thread made me buy:

SU-76i Conversion Masterbox        37.-€
Tauchpanzer III(H) Dragon            45.- € (bargain price)

Spending 82.-€ in total against 65.-€ for the Dragon kit, together with the feel of having made the better choice in terms of quality, accuracy and by getting lots of high quality parts for my spares box for the little extra amount of 17.-€...

IMHO, recent (last 2-3 years) Dragon price policy is a piece of impudence!

Nevertheless: Merry X-mas, I'll be looking forward to your full report over at Panzer-Modell.de. Are you planing to do an English and a German version of the text?

[bbrowniii]

So, if I hear you right, I should think twice before I buy this kit? 😎

I am impressed and amazed by your perseverance in this build. Kudos to you!

[joelsmith]

Sounds like no one at Dragon builds their kits before shipping. Talk more soon, Joel.

[TRM]

Thanks for the close look at this Dierk! looking more and more like it is just in the best interest to pick up the conversion to begin with!

I hear you Toby! The conversion is not the price issue as much as needing half of the DML kit to do this. This was designed for the older models. Many times the older DML kits can be bought ultra cheap at shows or form someone selling off their stash. I have to think that total cost could be chopped in half with some looking.

[maschinenkrueger]

My sentiments exactly! It's a total turd of a kit. I gave up on the Dragon parts and used the MasterClub resin set.

BTW, The "German" version you refer to seems to be fictional. The Russians did make a "command" version of the SU-76i and added the PzIII copula to replace the periscope. I've never seen photos of the Su-76i with winterketten. There is one known SU-76i that was captured by the germans, painted with white wash and a large solid black was hand painted on the side.

[adt70hk]

Thanks for sharing and not to mention due persevering!!

There is that Chinese(?) saying/curse "May you live in interesting times".... This is fast striking me as the model version.

Try not to give up!!!

[Tobi]

Dec 22, 2016 16:15:53 GMT -5 TRM said:

Thanks for the close look at this Dierk! looking more and more like it is just in the best interest to pick up the conversion to begin with!

I hear you Toby! The conversion is not the price issue as much as needing half of the DML kit to do this. This was designed for the older models. Many times the older DML kits can be bought ultra cheap at shows or form someone selling off their stash. I have to think that total cost could be chopped in half with some looking.

What really makes me angry is when I look at the prices for their recent re-issues. A Tiger B that was once sold at 40-45.-€, often with extra goodies, is now in the shelves for 72.- and more! What makes it so expensive? Goodies disappeared from the box, the molds should be long paid (and they don't get any better), crude oil (for the polystyrene) was exceptional cheap past years, labor costs in China are still low... my income has not risen anywhere the same.

Put this in correlation with new releases where fit and accuracy is sacrificed for the sake of having multiple versions and kit bashes like this SU-76i and then tell me you don't feel getting ripped off by Dragon (and other Chinese companies)!
Remember the Orange Box offerings? That I called value for the money...

[TRM]

I agree Tobi! It is tough to see standards lowered, less goodies or simple re-popping of junk with higher pricing. Personally I don't typically look at buying new releases unless first seeing what it looks like from a review or whatnot. It is disappointing dropping a pile of coins only to get a lack luster version of an older kit that I could pick up at a show for $15 on the member's table. I makes less sense when they tossed these junk parts in the box when there are 4 or 5 Pz. III kits with far better molds being sold right now...then toss their crappy version of the Su in the box. I would not be insulted to spruce up the Su casemate if all the other parts were as good as the Ausf. N I used for mine. The Chinese corporate market and thought process is completely cultural and a bit blind in the modelling industry. Only a couple companies that are willing to sacrifice big profit for production of a superior model. Your answer to the the "Orange Box" issue would certainly be the Cyber Hobby 9116 Pz. II Ausf. G...outstanding kit, short money (here anyway) and the conversion would work great with it I think!

[Tobi]

At the moment Ryefield is the Chinese player with the most reasonable price/content ratio, together with Hobby Boss.
But once they have established themselves in the market we will see their prices going through the roof as well, I'm afraid.
Other examples who already did so are Voyager, E.T. Model, Trumpeter, and partly Bronco.

[dierk]

Dec 22, 2016 13:50:13 GMT -5 Tobi said:

Thanks for your faithful and straight judgement Dierk.

Being already suspicious against the folks at Dragon from past experience and observations regarding that kind of "kit making", this thread made me buy:

SU-76i Conversion Masterbox        37.-€
Tauchpanzer III(H) Dragon            45.- € (bargain price)

Spending 82.-€ in total against 65.-€ for the Dragon kit, together with the feel of having made the better choice in terms of quality, accuracy and by getting lots of high quality parts for my spares box for the little extra amount of 17.-€...

IMHO, recent (last 2-3 years) Dragon price policy is a piece of impudence!

Nevertheless: Merry X-mas, I'll be looking forward to your full report over at Panzer-Modell.de. Are you planing to do an English and a German version of the text?

Thank you Tobi, and a merry doodah to you too. Although I think Boris Johnson's oxygen allowance should be withdrawn, I do have one thing in common with him: I'm recklessly honest.
To do the DML kit 'properly' you'd have to spend much more than 'just' the 65€ asking price: PE mudguards, AM tracks, metal barrel, replacement headlight and fuel tanks to name just the most important bits.
I think I'll just do the German language write-up on panzer-modell - I'm not sure how many English speakers visit that page.
No need for me to vent my spleen on DML pricing strategy - many, more eloquent modellers than me, have done so already and will, no doubt, continue to do so.

Dec 22, 2016 13:54:57 GMT -5 bbrowniii said:

So, if I hear you right, I should think twice before I buy this kit? 😎

I am impressed and amazed by your perseverance in this build. Kudos to you!

Cheers mate! But, you need to listen more carefully: you don't need to think twice, thrice or any number of times, you just simply need not buy this this kit.

Thanks Joel!

Dec 22, 2016 16:15:53 GMT -5 TRM said:

Thanks for the close look at this Dierk! looking more and more like it is just in the best interest to pick up the conversion to begin with!

I hear you Toby! The conversion is not the price issue as much as needing half of the DML kit to do this. This was designed for the older models. Many times the older DML kits can be bought ultra cheap at shows or form someone selling off their stash. I have to think that total cost could be chopped in half with some looking.

Glad you're liking it Todd! Once this it out of the way, I'll start another thread using the Masterclub conversion based on the old DML StuGIII C/D - I'll probably pinch the road-wheels off of this one, though

Dec 22, 2016 16:53:19 GMT -5 maschinenkrueger said:

My sentiments exactly! It's a total turd of a kit. I gave up on the Dragon parts and used the MasterClub resin set.

BTW, The "German" version you refer to seems to be fictional. The Russians did make a "command" version of the SU-76i and added the PzIII copula to replace the periscope. I've never seen photos of the Su-76i with winterketten. There is one known SU-76i that was captured by the germans, painted with white wash and a large solid black was hand painted on the side.

Glad you're sharing my impression of the kit, and thanks for the info on the German version. I'd like to see you blog your build here - been sent some of the pictures of your build on FB, but not even my eagerness to see the complete story will make me sign up to that lot of data miners and opinion manipulators.

Dec 22, 2016 17:52:24 GMT -5 adt70hk said:

Thanks for sharing and not to mention due persevering!!

There is that Chinese(?) saying/curse "May you live in interesting times".... This is fast striking me as the model version.

Try not to give up!!!

Indeed Andrew, couldn't agree more with you. Don't worry mate: giving up is for quitters, and I'm not this lively debate and excellent feedback is going a long way toward helping me maintain motivation despite the deep repugnance this kit raises in me...

[Tobi]

Should have done some research beforehand and not in the aftermath.

The recaptured SU-76i of Pz.Jg.Abt. 128 indeed would have made an interesting subject, but this was not based on an Ausf. H chassis, as it had venting domes on the engine access hatches!  

But guess what: the Tauchpanzer kit I've purchased has also these hatches and the frontal plate with the one piece gearbox hatches inside the box!

D'oh, Dragon! Lucky me... 

[Leon]

You'll whip this into shape one way or another Dierk!

[maschinenkrueger]

I'll start another thread using the Masterclub conversion based on the old DML StuGIII C/D

As far as I have been able to find, the Su-76i was only built on PzIII Ausf J hulls. And at least one built on a late J or L without side escape hatches.

I only have phone photos so far. They are not the best.

[TRM]

I know the two remaining Su's on display are J-based. I would think out of nearly 1200 Pz. III, IV and StuG's captured in and around Stalingrad, that there could have been a mixed bag of Su's manufactured. At least that is how I justified using a different variant!

[Tobi]

I'll second that! Picky Russians? Never heard about that...