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Post by wbill76 on Sept 19, 2012 19:18:12 GMT -5
Always amazes me the level of analog technology that was present in WW2. I can understand why you would go with the ring sight instead, looking good!
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Post by deafpanzer on Sept 19, 2012 19:21:40 GMT -5
LOVING IT! Will you let me shoot it if I come with a big wad of cash? Can't wait to see your next update...
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 20, 2012 9:40:51 GMT -5
driving will be fun to im thinkin:) full time four wheel drive with duece and half running gear
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 21, 2012 10:23:33 GMT -5
touching on the analog technology of ww2 , i would go down to the boeing wharehouse down the road and climb thru the b17 and b29 there and one time a worker was there and asked if i wanted to try the b29 gun controls out OH YA! i didnt know they where computerized and autmaticaly lead the plane and you just put the glowing crosshairsd on the terget and computer took care of the rest
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Post by wbill76 on Sept 21, 2012 20:04:12 GMT -5
Yep, the B29's turrets were remotely controlled and quite sophisticated...and rumored to be one of the reasons why they weren't used in Europe due to fears of losing the technology to the Germans.
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Post by TRM on Sept 22, 2012 22:11:28 GMT -5
Kymm, one amazing project here!!! Sights are simply awesome!! Emanuel, I am unsure to the differences between the early, mid and late variants of this vehicle, maybe you can enlighten me to a source or two as I may want to construct one of these myself...just not in this scale! Just noticing that nowhere in this thread was he aiming for 100% accuracy....even though he is right there if you ask me.......
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Post by 406 Silverado on Sept 22, 2012 23:09:18 GMT -5
I believe he is aware that it's not 100% correct, hence his statement. he craftmanship that is going into the scratch building, in this scale is fantastic. This is what the hobby is all about. I'm fine with close enough, and I'm sure the OP is too.
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 23, 2012 11:26:02 GMT -5
Hey guys there was all kinds of overlapping of models and many early models had the later visor covers etc etc and then there was field mods in mid war if say the computerized was damaged ?. And then there is artistic liscence Thanks for the support and guidance all is appreciated and I will post some pics of examples of the crossing of mods when I get a chance
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 23, 2012 11:29:27 GMT -5
Touching wbill76 comment earlier we kept it from the Germans and then handed it to the soviets who waisted no time replicating it exactly and then basing 40 years of bombers on it's technology DOA!
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Post by bbd468 on Sept 23, 2012 21:43:22 GMT -5
I dont care weather its early ,late or nearly midnight ....still looks damn good to me ;D ....nice work ) Chris. Ditto right here!!! This is just Killer!!! Gary
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Post by TRM on Sept 23, 2012 22:27:12 GMT -5
Point well taken Emanuel and I applaud you fervor, however, there are a few sides to this and many complex stories behind building for the shear enjoyment of it. First would be the fact that Kym has stated on more than one occasion that the 100% factor was not his main goal. For this we respect his skill and overall building. Second....at what point can you call and scale model and/or reproduction "accurate"!! Models are made with plastic and the thickness would never make it to true scale as the would probably liquify when glued together. The large scale at which he is building is more true to form than any kit. I respect you vivid obsession of having the numbers to an exact science but it is simply not the end of the world. Sometime the enjoyment of fabricating, designing and well, just building is what the individual is after. Seeing the fabrication skills of Kymm here tells me one thing for sure...that if he was so inclined to design, fabricate and finish an exact replica of the working sdkfz 222 early model, then he would be the one to surely make it happen. This ties in with many discussions that pop up on many forums as well as it has a few times on this one...the discussion of perception in the eyes of the viewer. Weather or not This Tiger had this track on this month in 1943 at 12:29 AM in the ETO or this GAZ could never carry this artillery or even the placement of an emblem! It is what it is!! There are right way and wrong ways to explain a standpoint on a subject with out fanatically slamming the door shut yelling "this is the way it is because I say". Not to mention that it was mentioned and received fairly well and then explained, why keep poking the Tiger? Now, out of the 150 + pictures you have, you mean to tell me that each an every shot is 100% the exact same? I mean every weld, ever nut and bolt every window spacing and fender layout? I will venture to guess no. This is due to Theater of Operation, construction from different factories with different workers, materials of different grades depending on availabilities and so on. Even color of primer base, top coat and camouflage colors exactly the same? Hardly! Then to add field modifications/changes....not sure anything is the same. I always have trouble remembering the third one correctly, oh yeah...The MSC Creed: Build What you like, When you like and How you like...as long as you are having FUN doing it!!! The idea of building for enjoyment, its how we roll. This is not to say that we can't discuss the changes, modification, screw-ups and missed parts. Hell, I would be the first one to want someone to let me know there was something messed up while I was still constructing it. It's how we learn. Criticism is not always a bad thing Sir. Although it can be depending on the context it is given. Time for sleep, I wish I could write some more....have a great evening!!!
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Post by TRM on Sept 24, 2012 6:00:36 GMT -5
Paranoia? LOL...I certain do not have such anxiety brought on for what you are referring. Simply to touch on the fact of being as bold to call one item "wrong" simply because you say it so. Break it down then, by the facts if it is so. I for one would honestly appreciate the factual evidence to show the short comings of the various intricacies of the vehicle. Hell, I would go one step further and add an entire section to the MSC library devoted to the sdkfz. 222 in an effort to help others. I can not emphasize enough that this is a "hobby" Meant to be fun and relaxing. The help and guidence is always encouraged as well as wanted. But not in such the blunt form of saying "that is just wrong"!! Explaining ones point would surley be the correct course. We collectively enjoy what we do because we enjoy it. I would love to discover the vast differences in this variant that you so veamently exclaim. With this, my so called "Paranoria" must be eased as I take comfort in know that true quandries will be solved ever so soon!
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Post by bullardino on Sept 24, 2012 6:07:32 GMT -5
I'm sorry to interfere in a such nice discussion, but you are showing what I find annoying of many sites. Looks like you're the one and only owner of the truth and anyone who doesn't have the same belief is the enemy.
May I suggest you to read again what you wrote and then tone it down? Things can be said in many different ways, and often the one that involves insulting others isn't the most effective one...
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Post by bullardino on Sept 24, 2012 9:03:33 GMT -5
Well, if you don't trust him as a moderator and find the forum policy inadequate, why are you here?
I may seem rude, asking, but that's the point for me. I go only where I feel comfortable, if you feel this place doesn't work for your approach, why do you spend time here?
And, by the way, I moderated a much larger forum than this (about 110k users) and the first and most logical rule I know is that if you have a problem with someone, you're better solve it by PM, and not flaming on the forum. So I suggest you to stop this improductive OT and talk with T by PM.
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Post by bullardino on Sept 24, 2012 9:17:06 GMT -5
sorry, as you noticed edit my previous post and I did not understand you meant well. I read it, now. Well, the tone was surely disturbingly high and aggressive. The core of the problem is that this is a group based on the idea that modeling is, first of all, a relaxing activity. We all want to improve our techniques, but as I said before, it is easier to teach if you try to be positive. That doesn't mean you can't say someone that you would have done something in some other way, but it's all about the way you say it. And it's about reading carefully before posting, even if sometimes it's hard to understand those native english speakers I think that one day or another Google Translator will start a war, don't trust its automated translations.
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Post by 406 Silverado on Sept 24, 2012 9:40:01 GMT -5
Gents I think it's time you all chill out. Clearly we do have a language and accuracy issue. I think this will only get worse if it's not stopped now. Zeke does have a valid point in the the thread title does say early. It could be that the OP did or does not have the ref material that Zeke has. Now if something is clearly an early model and should be a late, or the other way around, then it's simply a matter or editing the title. Zeke thanks for posting all the links and I am sure it will be helpful to the OP and others.
Now go to your hobby rooms and build or paint something....LOL
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 24, 2012 11:31:33 GMT -5
ok guys holster the guns!! the model i am representing is a early model with mid production visors , it will have the rear louvered engine cover early gun mount and gun early body style ( plenty of pics )
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 24, 2012 12:07:01 GMT -5
an original in kobinka russia "early or late?" its grey an obvious russian aplication not inclusive nore can we really count the later wheel type as they could have been added after (but most photo evidance puts these wheel types in ss lieberstandarte) it displays 41 visors MId production, it displays low grenade screens early , it displays early side mounted tool box , and early armour plating ,and early positioning of jack?? they where all a mix and match there was no cut off on production early mid or late as im sure you are all well aware of
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Post by 406 Silverado on Sept 24, 2012 13:00:44 GMT -5
Like with any vehicle during that time, many changes were being made, from small minor things to all new look. Basically anything goes sometimes. One can also NOT say xxx vehicle is from early in the war and would not of been in service at the end of the war. photographic evidence of early war vehicles being used at the end of the war are slowly coming to the surface.
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Post by 406 Silverado on Sept 24, 2012 13:03:03 GMT -5
Very nice ref pics Zeke. I didn't know the mount and gun was used other than in the 222. This opens the possibilities to some cool conversions using other vehicles...trucks, turretless small tanks etc. Some great what if type things.
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 24, 2012 14:01:32 GMT -5
it went the other way too i have a pic somewhere of a 222 armed with what appears to be a french 37 mm cannon for main armement ( a field mod for sure)
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 25, 2012 13:14:43 GMT -5
seat track adjuster
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 25, 2012 13:49:17 GMT -5
rebuild and mount transfer case
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Post by wbill76 on Sept 25, 2012 19:10:39 GMT -5
If I've learned one thing about German armor in the course of the past 10 years building and working on stuff it's that you can "never say never" when it comes to production and vehicle families. Factories didn't cut over cleanly and used up parts on hand, some orders were implemented early, some late, some not at all before being superseded by others, etc. Add on top of that the field modifications done by crews and you have all kinds of possibilities open up. That doesn't mean necessarily that "anything goes" but it certainly creates a lot of latitdue within reason.
Love what you're doing with this one...just amazing to see the fabrication work and detail you're achieving.
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 26, 2012 9:00:43 GMT -5
thanks to all ( even for the critical views ) as it all helps as im sure you are all aware .
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 26, 2012 13:21:03 GMT -5
early gun for laying ontop of grenade screens
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 27, 2012 12:51:16 GMT -5
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 27, 2012 12:54:02 GMT -5
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Sept 28, 2012 10:05:19 GMT -5
and a twenty round 2cm mag which would not have fit onthe german version with mg on other side
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snidervolley
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Post by snidervolley on Oct 3, 2012 8:31:27 GMT -5
early model laffete as going in my car
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