Rust/weathering process

[kiwibelg]

Hi guys,
Been MIA for quite a few months but back at the bench..quite a relief!
I have a Walking Dead diorama with two civillian cars and 14 odd "walkers".
My question regarding the rust effects on vehicles. I understand the base coat/hairspray technique, which paint do you all use for the eventual car colour? Acrylic or oil based paint?
I see people removing paint/salt with water and a hard brush before drying, these parts of the process are confusing.
Having only ever built one vehicle in my life this is all new to me!
Thanks,
Shay

[Deano]

Hiya mate !!! best thing is to try out some methods on some old model or plastic card . Have a look at some real time rusted out vehicles to get an idea of rust tones . Its not such a bad idea to work from a photo to get the finish you want . Youtube these methods , hairspray , salt ect ........ they will give you all the info you need


Here is a quick one .....  www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0EWdr6t8m0

[k1w1]

Kiora Shay.

( Kiora = Secret code word only known to Kiwis )

Really looking forward to seeing your diorama come together.  I feel a little under qualified to be giving you advice with all the really talented guys on here that are way more skilled than I.

I have done a couple of rusty cars. Tamiya acrylic base coat - I used XF10 Flat brown. Some people use XF9 Hull Red. Life color do a really nice range of acrylic rust colours or Vallejo. I have always used acrylic for the top coat / car colour. For  best results use pale colours like pale blue or green or even off white. Dark colours just don't show the rust effects well. I have always removed the salt after paint is dry and most I have just rubbed off with my fingers.

Word of warning I have not seen mentioned on the many You Tube salt rusting tutorials I have seen. You need to give the items that were salted a very careful wash after you remove the salt. I kept getting little droplets all over mine for weeks. Looked like sweat on the items I had used salt on. Pretty sure that the traces of salt were attracting moisture. After I washed it no more droplets. BUT - you need to take care washing the model as the paint over the hairspray will rub off easy if the model is submerged in water and you rub firmly. Probably briefly submerging it in warm soapy water for a minute should remove the traces of salt.

So have a look at some of the you tube tutorials and you should be fine. I just mentioned the above things as they were problems I struck that you can now avoid ?.

Then you can do the enamel washes and add the streaks.


Experts feel free to correct me if I am not giving the best advice............

[TRM]

Hey Shay!!

There are more than one way to skin a cat, and the hairspray and salt technique is just one of a few and often there is a mix of techniques to get the desired effect.

With the base paint of any of the techniques, any color or brand will work. The biggest point to the process is making sure you have a good clear coat added and that it has time to cure. After that it is a matter of applying the medium for chipping. Hairspray is one...and one of the best, but here are Chipping Mediums and Chipping Fluids from Vallejo, AK Interactive and AMMO. They work similar but remove paint much easier. Basically it depends on the look you are going for.

Hairspray is one of the best. Cheap and pretty much in every home. It is a fact the hairspray Tech. was made for Tamiya, but it is certainly not limited to just that paint. It works with all acrylics and enamels as well as the hybrid acrylic solvents like Tamiya.

Note - The amount of medium, any of them, will define how much and how easy the paint is removed with or without salt. More medium, larger areas and bigger chipping and much easier to remove the top coat of paint. With salt, there is a pebbled look of the edges and overall surface you are going for and if the salt is applied it will scrub off with a stiff brush pretty easily.

Along with the amount of chipping mediums affecting the look, the amount of solution to remove the paint defines the look and ease as well. I say solution, because water is not the only medium used to remove the paint. Obviously you need a medium that is compatible with the paint on the top coat. Water is used for acrylic, as you would figure, and standard thinner for oil based enamels. Again, too much and you might remove too much paint and too little and things will be difficult to remove.

One more thing that effects the look, is the tools you use to remove the paint. Q-tips, toothpicks, stiff and soft bristled brushes and so on. Each one will allow you a different effect. Add to that, the length of time you allow the paint to dry will give you different effect. Too soon and bigger chipping can be obtained...too late and you will have a hell of a time removing it. But this is where you can bump up the solvents in the removal agent and allow you to get different effects that way too.

Other methods like the Windex technique...I think you might have seen from Marc Reusser and John Tolcher involves the use of an ammonia based cleaner like Windex for removing the paint. Basically it breaks the paint down and can eliminate the use of salt in some case, depending on how you use it. Myself and Rob have used alcohol for years as a way of removing paint in different manners, but there is a balance that needs to be there or you will eat through the clear coat and down to bare plastic....LOL!!

SO after all this talk, whatever you want to use for paint of the top coat is up to you! Depends on the look. If you are looking to get a glossy look mixed into the top coat, use a glossy paint. With a flat base and all the chipping stuff, there is a nice effect of a shine with the old flat rust. Some surfaces, even car paint, will be flat in appearance after oxidation and weathering...so not always needed. Also, if you use and acrylic base, you don't necessarily need to use a clear coat if you are using an enamel top coat...and vice versa...neither one will effect the other. Like painting the instrument panel buttons and dials on aircraft in enamel, then hitting the whole thing with a flat grey or black, a Q-tip (bud) damp with alcohol will remove only the high points revealing the painted enamel....again, it works when acrylic is the base too.

All of this stuff comes down to playing around with different techniques. Not only finding one you like, but having each of them as a tool on the bench for different effect.

okay....I am heading back to my coffee!

[Deano]

Here is another one from our very own Scratchmod www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_jXm9MpBEU

[kaytermarram]

Have used stuff called "Instant rust" from the artist store, which consists of a grey medium base (comes mixed up with iron oxide inside) and followed by a stuff (consisty of water) which is painted over the grey medium and it begins to rust asap. You can watch while it reacts!

And I highly recommend Migs WEATHERING MAGAZINE, there is a whole issue dedicated to rust technics.

Frank

[tigrazor]

Never tried to rust models very strongly, so Im curious about it too. In most cases, when I want to achieve small rusty spots and/or scratches, I do it like this:

>priming with dark brown or metal color (Alclad II, Humbrol MetalCote or similar)
>bring on Maskol with a sponge
>colorize the model
>rub off the Maskol.

This is (in my eyes) only useful for bigger scales, for example this one (1/35 scale):

modelerssocialclub.proboards.com/thread/9950/winter-coming-gallery-pics?page=1

The big advantage is that you can create realistic optics like splintered color very easily. Just be careful with the sponge - less is more.

Frank, is that stuff available at Boesner, btw? We have one around here, it sounds very interesting.

[kaytermarram]

Lucas, don´t know. Have bought it (and buy) at "Koelner Malkasten" but I guess, it is available at internet shops, too. Try it, it is really cool stuff! And remember, it is real rust, no imitation! And no scale effect here!

Frank

[tigrazor]

Gonna have a look tomorrow then, Ive seen some kind of patina powder and even sheets of beaten gold (!) there. Well see if they have it.

[kaytermarram]

Good luck and have fun experimenting! I have used another technic which consists of scrubbed off real rust from rusted metal, mixed it with varnish and brought it on. You can gradually build up a real thickness of the corroded metal. Works with scrapped off brown and orange pastell chalks too!

Frank

[armorguy]

My Ford Fat topic has info on the process of salt and hairspray too, but I think the fella members here already helped you a lot.

Have a go on it Shay, it's great fun to experiment !

[tigrazor]

Nov 27, 2015 4:23:55 GMT -5 kaytermarram said:

Good luck and have fun experimenting! I have used another technic which consists of scrubbed off real rust from rusted metal, mixed it with varnish and brought it on. You can gradually build up a real thickness of the corroded metal. Works with scrapped off brown and orange pastell chalks too!

Frank

Copy that. My old car - about 20 years of age - was really (t)rustworthy. In a double kind of sense: Very reliable and if I needed some rust, I always had some on the rocker rail and the compartment door. Typical Golf Mk.III Sedan aka Vento aka Jetta (for the US people). I used this method only twice, and yeah - it worked very well.

And youre right, forgot to mention the pastel chalks. Theyre easy to use too. Only thing to keep an eye on is that theyre dry and oil-free, makes it easier to work with, thats something I use more than the "real rust method".

[kaytermarram]

Tons of possibillities for that kind of weathering. And hey, Luke (sorry, could not resist, harhar), do not mention VW and US folks in the same sentence, muharr!

Frank

[tigrazor]

LOL. I hear that sentence quite often - not only these days. Before you ask: George is not a relative of mine (wish it would be so), and I cant drive a train (Augsburg, you know? ).


BTW, the car was a gas powered version, not a Diesel. That was close.

[kiwibelg]

Deano, Kiwi (o for awesome), Todd,Frank,Lucas, Guy...thankyou very much for taking your time to reply, hopefully I'm on the right track!

[kaytermarram]

It is time to slaught the holy cow: Who is George Lucas? After STAR WARS what else memorable has he done? HOWARD THE DUCK was a nightmare, THX1138 more an art movie, this 60ties film with the drive in (hell, can´t remember the name now) was really good and after that? Ideas for Indy Jones, ok, but only STAR WARS gave him the name... And WILLOW? Hohum, ok but not the thing I would praise enough.

Hehe, and for the car: Be happy that it was no car with a coal driven motor. Who knows the Co² emissions in THAT case!!

Frank

[tigrazor]

Dont want to distract, but maybe we should discuss this in another thread á la "Is there a good Golf Mk.III kit around" or something. Been searching for a Vento transkit for ages now. There was one, and I wanted to build is like mine was - dark blue and dark brown at the described spots.



Youre welcome, Shay!

As for the chalks, I had a closer look at them. The brand I use very often is "Jaxell", and these are my favourites:

"Aubergine" (No. 47708) >> dark brown
"Red brown dark" (No. 47731) >> The name says it all
"Black" (No. 47698)

and a reddish brown. Unfortunately the badge is gone, and theres no number. Of course they all can be mixed.

[kiwibelg]

Frank goes off topic..never!! Hahaha
I think South Park got it right with Indiana Jones/Lucas and Spielberg..lol

[kiwibelg]

Pinball machine scene...almost forgot to mention it!

[kiwibelg]

Nov 27, 2015 6:45:32 GMT -5 armorguy said:

My Ford Fat topic has info on the process of salt and hairspray too, but I think the fella members here already helped you a lot.

Have a go on it Shay, it's great fun to experiment !

Your build was an excellent reference point mate! Jaw dropping stuff!!

[bullardino]

Have fun rusting

I chose a mix of the salt and windex techniques for my 360.

But as the guys said above, go experimenting and enjoy the trip

[kiwibelg]

Thanks Luigi, your 360 is looking sweet!

[kiwibelg]

This is the result I got after the chipping process, still have to highlight some rust areas, dust and streaks etc.
What do you guys think?
Cheers
Shay

[kaytermarram]

Don´t know what you are crying about, looks well done! Fits in a WALKING DEAD diorama (or a dump, harhar!). Only thing I would mention is, that the rust spots looks a bit "too random" (if you get what I want to say). Maybe drill out holes from behind the chassis with a dremel and work rust holes with a sharp scalpell scraping into the holes. You will get a great effect.

Frank

[deafpanzer]

You nailed! I see I missed the fun earlier... you only need to add streaks next. Do you have one of those rust washes from AK/MIG/Ammo? If so, it is very easy to apply and use white spirit to make streaks. DO it very gently and repeat few times until you are happy.

[kiwibelg]

Thanks Andy, I have various weathering sets from AK that I will still use. A little trial and error with this one! This is only my second vehicle build and have learnt a great deal that will help me out if I ever tackle a tank!

Frank, I hear you about the randomness of the rust..I was contemplating of bagging it and starting over again, but in hindsight I think my figures will stand out a little more with this one in the background.
I have Japanese SUV that is up next, it will be weathered more finely than the sedan.

In the picture the sedan seems to be white but under natural light it's more of a baby blue colour. Anyways..time to hit the SUV!

[k1w1]

Looks like a good start to me. As you add to the effects it will all come together. A bit late to mention it now but I quite like the effect of having one panel in a different colour. A door for example. So it has had some damage at some point and a second hand one has been fitted.

[kiwibelg]

Thanks Kiwi, I was originally going to use a different coloured door but instead went with the advice of my GF. They always know better eh!lol

[nicusi]

Hi Shay, for me it looks great too. Now, I'll try to place the car in scene, I don't know if it will be under a tree, near a house, in order to see better the lighter/darker areas . Or, if not, also would help to make some more steps. For this, I'll tray to make very subtle fading, using very diluated glazes of Vallejo Yellow Ochre, Brown Sand and similar colours in order to break the monotony of white surface. In the places more exposed to the sun.
I'll let only on some edges, event interrupted, that white.
Or, depends on your project idea, you could suggest rain marks, some mud on low areas, you could add some leaves, small branches on it. You could leave your imagination fly!
Send me on pm your email adress, I can send some materials.
Good luck, very promising project!
Nic