the constant complaining of model accuracy

[thug626]

Apr 14, 2017 20:37:11 GMT -5 jpc1968 said:

mrt51 gets it spot on. most of you get the jist. a perfect example is thug626's eduard bf109

Thank you kindly.

Open kit. Cut. Scrape. Glue. Paint. Weather.....repeat until done.

New Kit...repeat above.

[TRM]

I'm a little like that too John...I like to see things come together; but more from the completed construction stage through paint and weathering. I am not a big fan of building...not as much as the back-end theatrics!

Right on Dave....Buy, build, paint, NEXT PLEASE!

[panzerjager2]

JPC have no worries sir.... Nothing in your post was taken poorly by me..... Any rants I got off were simply my dementia kicking in again. 
The actor William Holden said it best in the classic War film Bridge on the River Kwai..... "I'm getting worse you know....sometimes I think I'm Admiral Halsey"
PJ2

[Tobi]

Reviews and tweak lists are a nice idea, but you have to be careful! You need to do your homework, if you really want to know what's going on.
Because a review can lead you also in the wrong direction, for 1/35 armor this is especially true with kits from the big D. Some writers receive kit samples from the manufacturers only for this single purpose, so the review may easily result in a praising. Others unjustly may make a kit bad, but in fact are wrong with their arguments. My advice: take nothing on the internet for granted, don't even take what's printed in books for granted.
If someone tells me this or that reference is THE bible on a certain subject, at best he will earn a raised eyebrow from me. From scientific point of view it's not sound to base your work on only one single source, but maybe my perspective is owed to my engineering background. I won't go into detail here, but I can give examples, both internet and literature, if somebody wants me to.

Some people (I do) enjoy the literature and research aspect of modelling as much as the construction and painting of a model itself, while others don't care and just want to build. Both approaches are OK, but the famous request for "constructive comments" bears the risk that, depending on the focus of each person, you may get answers or reply's you don't want to hear. Maybe one should make it clear in the preface which faction he or she is belonging to? There was this funny sign in Japan, reading: "No dumb area. Do not dumb here!" Of course the owner wanted to say "dump", but it fits perfectly for my purpose!

Conclusion: the beginner and the uninformed both will always find it hard to positively distinguish the common troll from the, let's say, somewhat obsessive (healthy or not) hunter for accuracy and historical correctness out there.
Different preferences and tastes regarding the hobby will always lead to disagreements between debaters. So take it easy and carry on.

Regarding my person: there are the artists in this hobby and then there are the rivet counters. After more than 30 years of modelling I still try to find my balance between these two, and once I have reached a degree of perfection that I have nothing left to complain about my own work I will quit!
I have a demanding team leader job in R&D inside the defense industry, five different hobbies rivaling about my spare time and as a result of that no private life left, so to say! And that even without girlfriend or wife at the moment.
To my great dismay I haven't finished any model in over three years now. But, my work is out there, either here on the forum or at Panzer-Modell.de, if anyone feels the urge of checking up on me. Therefore I take the liberty to occasionally comment.

Now that was longer than originally intended...
Happy modelling!

PS: My avatar was built and painted by me!

[jpc1968]

I really enjoy reading the comments on this subject. I have learned from other perspectives and views. I hope I have not angered anybody. It's nice to know how some people look at a kit, how some study it before building or those that just jump in and attack it. I do some homework but not a lot, mostly reference pics or read history on the subject. Tobi I thought that avatar was your work, it's really good. Thanks, everyone and keep up the good work. Let's build a masterpiece today!

[reserve]

I recall some years back when there were only 150 or so of us here the major theme was "Build what you want the way you want it". For the most part when unsolicited advice was offered it was taken in the spirit it was offered in; an attempt to be friendly and help out someone who was trying to achieve a level that the advisor had already surmounted. I for one acquired more than a few new techniques that've helped me to be better at the hobby in this manner and it's good to see this has not changed here.

Rivet counters? If it's what makes 'em happy let 'em have at it. They are noise, no more. I've also noticed rivet counters don't flourish here 'cause that's not what this site was founded on. There was a guy awhile back whom I've not seen around lately who was building a working 1/1 replica of an SdKfz 222 in his garage, a project that had me (and still does) have me slack jawed in amazement whenever I looked at the thread. A new member who I've not seen around lately either got on him about the thing being 60mm too long and 100mm too short and so forth. In a magnificent display of intolerance for such behavior a few of the members here verbally drew and quartered this guy for what was perceived by pretty much everyone as being critical without merit. It was quite the battle for awhile; some of you may recall this.

Just a few ruminations on my part.

I wonder if he ever got that 222 on the road

Regards,
Mark

[TRM]

Sept 3, 2017 22:33:16 GMT -5 reserve said:

I recall some years back...

Mark, that was Snidervolley (Kymm) and that was an absolutely fantastic build happening! The ...wait, I am thinking of an accepted vernacular other than "rivet counter" for the individual that made an attempt to derail the thread a while back....I think ignorant SOB will suffice for now! LOL Many people are quite familiar with his arrogant ways of interjecting himself into just about anything model related...Emanuel Morales Zeke is his name. I believe at the time, the stink he produced around the thread in question originated with the name of the thread itself and the 222 being labeled as "early". I do recall that pretty much everyone but himself didn't give two-shi*s what it was called because it was exciting to see someone creating such and amazing 1:1 piece.

Sadly Kymm has not been on for about a year now...I think most of that actually has to do with normal life events and what-have-you and not the interaction with Zeke among the ranks of MSC. Unfortunately just about all of his pictorial showings of his efforts have been lost to the PhpotBucket debacle. I did follow a link back to see his album and while extremely painful navigating the popup garbage PB has in place, I was able to see at least one picture where it does appear to be road worthy. With any luck he will return someday and my hope would be that he could share with us some of the completed vehicle!

All of this,however, does tie directly into what John's original post was all about. The fact that individuals sometimes do not possess the ability to give or receive constructive criticism without turning everything into a damn argument. In this case it was a hard line laid down because of the mere labeling of "early" and Zeke's inability to distinguish between what he thinks to be true and what is more often than not, plausible in the real world. Zeke, like many before him and after, cannot get past an incessant need for things to be what they consider to be 100% accurate...all the while having a hard time grasping the fact that nothing will be ever truly 100% accurate in scale...only visually close. They need to get over themselves and get over their lack of understanding that people do this stuff for fun!

[reserve]

True 'nuff brother...You'd think there'd be special sites created for such people to fight on about foolish things...Oh wait a minute they are out there aren't they?

Regards,
Mrk

[TRM]

LOL...yes there is, and plenty of pages on FB as well.

[panzerjager2]

Todd, here is my last lil bit on this............. I have been both the Jack-a-lope and the really cool guy when it comes to this one.... The real problem has ZERO to do with the hobby or hobbyist. It has to do with a society/communication issue. In our "wonderful" technological age, people have lost the ability to communicate. The unspoken/written format has take over. We as a society no longer communicate face to face. And as such emails, text, twitter/twatter, Facebook and all the stinking others rule. We have lost the ability to either A). say what we mean, or B). we read too much or too little into the unspoken communication. In my former career, we PREACHED, and I do mean preached SENT versus RECEIVED. In the unspoken format a person may send something one way, yet it is received a completely different way. In these formats there is no context, no emotion, just the written words, which leaves the recipient open to his or her own interpretation. I personally have been guilty of this. To that end I try and write as I speak. If I am happy/pleased I say so, conversely if unhappy/pissed off I'll say so. I have never shied away from telling a person to their face to A). Go "F" themselves or B). Share positive feedback. As a former Lieutenant, I was famous/notorious for this. I figure it's better for people to know where they stand, RIGHT???  I also am GUILTY of forgetting this lil ditty.... We praise in public and discipline/negative in private.

But what the hell, I'm old. Soon people of my age will go the way of the dodo bird..............
PJ2 the old crabby guy... "hey kid get off my F-ing lawn" LOL LOL LOL 

[Tobi]

Whitney, the one fantastic thing about the wild wild web is: you get in touch with people with similar interests whom you would have never met in real life and if you're lucky, they are a bunch of cool to have fun with, share tips and tricks, debate and argue passionate (not insulting) and if there are sometimes misunderstandings due to missing context or sound, get over it together and learn to get along with each others quirks.

That's what I found here and why I like it here.

And for the minority group: you learn to ignore them as well...

[jpc1968]

these last few comments have been great and I agree with each and every one. The emotion not being in a text is one of my peeves for a long time now. Nobody knows how to "take" it when they read what you sent. It can be something as innocent as "what are you doing?" as you would say it to a toddler who is being mischevious and you are chuckling at them, but the one reading it takes it as "WHAT ARE YOU DOING!" like your yelling at Jeffrey Dahmer when he was captured. Sorry I missed the 1:1 222, I would have loved to have seen that.

[TRM]

"Tone" is certainly something that can be received incorrectly more often than not. I think with the folks around here (MSC) that we all can gauge where the other person is coming form for the most part and interpret a question like "what are you doing?" as just that a question and not a judgment. This also applies to someone bringing up something about lets say, accuracy about a particular part or whatever. A simple answer by the builder often suffices...be it "I am not too worried about it" or "thanks, I didn't know that", but the person volunteering the information almost seem to be offended the individual didn't stop what they were doing and correct it! LOL I actually try and convey a thought about reading into tones from an email. Read the email as it is written and don't try an assign a persona's voice to it. Sometime it is just short and sweet with no negative connotations. Then we also have language crossovers. The English language is so bastardized to begin with, but someone posting from another country where English is not their native tongue, certain essential words get dropped unknowingly resulting in some folks interpreting a simple question as an attack. This leads me back to what I just mentioned about knowing the people around here and understanding where they are coming from when they post...no harm is intended....LOL

As for the 222. I stole a screen shot from his album. PB riddled me with about 20 ads in 3 seconds when I opened the album and then would not let me see a large version of it. well, I think this is the finished version anyway...

[jpc1968]

Well said. That 222 is amazing. He done an excellent job.

[Deleted]

How pitifully sad must one's life be if criticizing a plastic model kit, anonymously on the internet, is the high light of their day.

G

[panzerjager2]

Tobi, my good man, I think you just abooot "hit the nail on the head"..... And I for one has his foibles and quirks.... However I am trying to be better.....
PJ2

[reserve]

So there it is, he did finish it. Built by him in his GARAGE. I haven't sufficient words to describe the awe. Thanks for that shot T

Regards,
Mark

[TRM]

Sept 7, 2017 0:27:10 GMT -5 reserve said:

So there it is, he did finish it. Built by him in his GARAGE. I haven't sufficient words to describe the awe. Thanks for that shot T

Regards,
Mark

...the reenactment group was like, "we need a new vehicle, maybe a SdKfz 222" and Kymm was like, "hold my beer"!