The Panther Tank

[sturmbird]

Found this book at the house the otherday called "Panther, Germany's Quest For Combat Dominance". ISBN 978 1 84908 841 1.

This is the most complete Panther book I've ever seen, with many color photos included. An absolute must have for somebody interested in the Panther tank. It covers just about everything in detail.

gary

[Tobi]

A nice book for sure, but you might want to have a look into these:

1. Similar title, "Germany's Panther - The quest for combat supremacy" (ISBN 0-88740-812-5, the real deal!) by Jentz, or alternatively the Panzertracts soft-covers on the Panther, also by Jentz.

2. "Panther - External appearance & design changes" (ISBN 843-6-535579-88-9) by Roddy MacDougall & Martin Block

3. "Nürnberg's Panzer Factory - A photographic study" (ISBN 978-1-908032-06-5) by Roddy MacDougall & Darren Neely

4. "Panther - Meilenstein der Panzertechnik" (ISBN 978-3-935107-10-5) by Frank Köhler. This book is in German language, dunno if there exists an English translation, but it's an insider tip. 

[sturmbird]

Aug 23, 2018 3:21:40 GMT -5 Tobi said:

A nice book for sure, but you might want to have a look into these:

1. Similar title, "Germany's Panther - The quest for combat supremacy" (ISBN 0-88740-812-5, the real deal!) by Jentz, or alternatively the Panzertracts soft-covers on the Panther, also by Jentz.

2. "Panther - External appearance & design changes" (ISBN 843-6-535579-88-9) by Roddy MacDougall & Martin Block

3. "Nürnberg's Panzer Faxctory - A photographic study" (ISBN 978-1-908032-06-5) by Roddy MacDougall & Darren Neely

4. "Panther - Meilenstein der Panzertechnik" (ISBN 978-3-935107-10-5) by Frank Köhler. This book is in German language, dunno if there exists an English translation, but it's an insider tip. 

I've seen book one before. Doyle & Jentz have a lot of input in the book I spoke of. In some cases I thought they didn't really go deep enough, and others they probably got a little too technical for the average reader. Their coverage of Zimmerit was interesting, but they did very little on the patterns. They even give you the formula to make it! The color photos from restorations are a serious plus, and answer a lot of questions.

Wish the authors would do a Panzer IV book! Or better yet a two or three book Sherman series!
gary

[Tobi]

Restorations are always are double-edged sword, both when it comes to details and also paint jobs. Over the years I've seen quite a lot of them carried out bad. Even the people at Bovington painted their Tiger interior in this odd and horrible "Elfenbein" color. But they must have lightened it with some white, because even RAL1015 "Hellelfenbein" is originally darker than the paint in the pictures.

From the Panzertracts range by Jentz you can have many different Panzer IV dedicated issues: Jagdpanzer, Flakpanzer, Bergepanzer, Brückenlegepanzer and of course the Kampfpanzer versions, all based on the IV.

For the Sherman tanks the standard book is the one by Hunnicutt, I guess.
And then there is a very comprehensive book by Ampersand directed especially to modelers with the title
"Son of Sherman" (ISBN: 978-0977378111)

[dennis]

Gents, I am not an armour modeller but a number of my friends are and it is with great sadness that I have to inform you that after a short illness Roddy MacDougall has passed away. He will be missed. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
In sorrow.
Dennis

[sturmbird]

Aug 24, 2018 6:53:06 GMT -5 Tobi said:

Restorations are always are double-edged sword, both when it comes to details and also paint jobs. Over the years I've seen quite a lot of them carried out bad. Even the people at Bovington painted their Tiger interior in this odd and horrible "Elfenbein" color. But they must have lightened it with some white, because even RAL1015 "Hellelfenbein" is originally darker than the paint in the pictures.

From the Panzertracts range by Jentz you can have many different Panzer IV dedicated issues: Jagdpanzer, Flakpanzer, Bergepanzer, Brückenlegepanzer and of course the Kampfpanzer versions, all based on the IV.

For the Sherman tanks the standard book is the one by Hunnicutt, I guess.
And then there is a very comprehensive book by Ampersand directed especially to modelers with the title
"Son of Sherman" (ISBN: 978-0977378111)

My paint book doesn't even have a call out for Elfenbein. I've seen it a couple times at the Patton Museum, and you are correct about the Tiger. Yet I can only go by what the printer and pressmen did with their ink in the Tigers. I just figured they got their ratios wrong. The Patton 222 armored car is original. Model Master 2164 is much closer, but has too much red in it. Hate to say it, but the color is close to parchment or the old buff that Ford used in their interiors. I have no color chart with Hellelfenbein.


I never worry too much about what colors show up in a book too much. More often than not they are an error in the pressman's eye, as he's the guy mixing the ink. I'm interested in the mechanical layout of the tank or aircraft. Being of a machine tool background, I find myself constantly taking things apart in my head.

gary

[Tobi]

Aug 24, 2018 22:54:45 GMT -5 sturmbird said:

Aug 24, 2018 6:53:06 GMT -5 Tobi said:

Restorations are always are double-edged sword, both when it comes to details and also paint jobs. Over the years I've seen quite a lot of them carried out bad. Even the people at Bovington painted their Tiger interior in this odd and horrible "Elfenbein" color. But they must have lightened it with some white, because even RAL1015 "Hellelfenbein" is originally darker than the paint in the pictures.

From the Panzertracts range by Jentz you can have many different Panzer IV dedicated issues: Jagdpanzer, Flakpanzer, Bergepanzer, Brückenlegepanzer and of course the Kampfpanzer versions, all based on the IV.

For the Sherman tanks the standard book is the one by Hunnicutt, I guess.
And then there is a very comprehensive book by Ampersand directed especially to modelers with the title
"Son of Sherman" (ISBN: 978-0977378111)

My paint book doesn't even have a call out for Elfenbein. I've seen it a couple times at the Patton Museum, and you are correct about the Tiger. Yet I can only go by what the printer and pressmen did with their ink in the Tigers. I just figured they got their ratios wrong. The Patton 222 armored car is original. Model Master 2164 is much closer, but has too much red in it. Hate to say it, but the color is close to parchment or the old buff that Ford used in their interiors. I have no color chart with Hellelfenbein.


I never worry too much about what colors show up in a book too much. More often than not they are an error in the pressman's eye, as he's the guy mixing the ink. I'm interested in the mechanical layout of the tank or aircraft. Being of a machine tool background, I find myself constantly taking things apart in my head.

gary

Out of curiosity, which paint book do you use for reference?
I have one written by a German author. Think he did a terrific job.
Based on everything I saw, read and collected over the past years, the interior color would be RAL 9002 "Grauweiss". A view also expressed by the RAL-Institut, and they are the ones who should know, no? Also fits to Wehrmacht memos on paint-jobs and supply charts.
Recent findings from Russian swamps where the color was perfectly conserved from environmental influence due to lack of light and oxygen also back this. Problem with white is it almost always starts turning buff over time and age, fooling the eye.

The 222 is a special case due to its nature. I have concerns taking it as reference also for a battle tank. Think it's more on the open-topped vehicle side.

[sturmbird]

Tobi,

My favorite is the Model Master technical guide to painting. I've found it incomplete in areas, and really nice in other areas. In the end I've been adding some conversions and a few notes here and there on the blank pages. (I wish they had twice as many blank pages). On the otherhand I also use several conversion charts I got off Bing Images, and these can be a life saver.


That 222 armored car was pretty much original, and the hatches were opened so you could stick your head in there. Somewhere, I have photos I shot of the interior. Been quite awhile since I last looked at them. Always been fascinated with the armored cars. This reminds me that I have to get back on my 260 project!

gary