3D Printers?

[rudyaguilar]

Hello everyone!
I was curious if anyone out their who has experience with creating and 3d printing their own parts for models could point me in the direction to some good quality and affordable 3d printers that would be good to start out with?

[tcoat]

I am in the same boat. So many things I would like to do with one but the options are no many it is mind boggling.

[406 Silverado]

Dec 23, 2023 12:41:33 GMT -5 rudyaguilar said:

Hello everyone!
I was curious if anyone out their who has experience with creating and 3d printing their own parts for models could point me in the direction to some good quality and affordable 3d printers that would be good to start out with?

I don't have a clue where to start with this but what I can do is keep bumping this thread up to the top for the rest of the fine folks here to see. There'll be somebody here who'll know Rudy.

[jeaton01]

My meager understanding is resin printers are better than filament type printers for detail work. I even have a resin printer which is still in the box because the first step if we want to make original parts is to have and know how to use 3d drawing programs. I am well advanced with Autocad but it is not a 3d program suitable for this kind of work.

[roland66]

Hi,

I don't think you can go wrong with the Elegoo resin printers. The new ones can do 9/12K resolution and they cost $300/400. I have seen 4K prints and thought they were very good. You have to remember that you also need the equipment for cleaning and hardening. And you need experience with the CAD program. That's the main reason why I haven't started yet.

[jeaton01]

I have the Elegoo Mars 2 Pro, don't know what it's resolution is as it doesn't give it as a K factor.  Here are the specs they do give:

XY res.: 50 Microns (2560 x 1620 pixels)

Z axis res.: 0.00125mm

Layer res.: 0.01-0.2mm

Printing speed: 30-50mm/h

Printer size: 200mm x 200mm x 410mm

Build volume: 129mm x 80mm x 160mm

Material: UV Resin

Net weight: 6.2kg

[aaronw]

I've been following the technology for quite a few years but only recently bought a 3D printer, well actually two (one of each type, a Prusa 3 and an Elegoo Saturn 2). Like John I'm still very much in the figuring out how to turn it on stage.




3D printers just keep getting better and cheaper. Back around 2010, $1000 only got you a small, low resolution 3D printer, basically useful for making simple toys, or parts for DIY 3D printers. They were basically an expensive novelty. Today there are a lot of options for good entry level printers at or under $300.





Resin is generally preferred for making figures and small detail parts.

Pros for Resin is they can print with very high resolution detail, and are generally faster than FDM (the filament type).

There are also many downsides to resin. They cost more (until recently a lot more, but now generally just a bit more), and for the price you get a much smaller printable area.

Resin requires isopropyl alcohol for clean up, and can have a strong smell. Many of the new printers include a charcoal filter to reduce the odors and water clean up resins, are becoming available.

The parts are made in a bath of resin, so you need a container of isopropyl alcohol (or water if a water clean up resin) to clean off the excess uncured resin, and a UV light to finish curing the part. The light can be as simple as taking it out into direct sunlight, but it seems a handheld UV light is preferred. They also make cleaning tanks and curing stations with a turn table, so a little less work, but added cost.

The resin materials are typically weak and brittle. Ok for figures and model parts, not so much for items that will be handed a lot so need some strength and durability.



Filament printers (FDM) are preferred for "working parts" like tool parts and props. This is because most of these printers can print with a variety of materials to meet the needs of a part. Many filament printers can use PLA, PETG, ABS, ASA, polycarbonate and fiber reinforced materials.

These printers have historically been much cheaper than resin printers, but the price difference has closed considerably in the past couple of years.

They also offer a larger working size than a resin printer of similar cost.

Detail is not as good as resin, but it has come a long way and can be suitable for some types of parts. Could be a good choice for parts that need more strength, but have lower detail requirements like bases, terrain features, walls, buildings etc. It could also be a good choice for somebody doing larger sci-fi or real space models and planning to make a whole space crafts vs small parts to add detail to a kit.  

Filament printers have a moving nozzle, so the bigger a part (or making multiple parts at one time) will take longer compared to a resin printer. With a resin printer a part that fills 1 square inch of the build plate takes the same time as one that fills the entire build plate. With an FDM printer an 8x8" part will take 64x longer to create than a 1x1" part.



3D printers is a rabbit hole, but hopefully this at least gives you some idea of what the differences are to help you figure out a good place to start. Also having both types is quite common, since they each have their strengths and weaknesses.


As far as suggestions

Crealty is a popular lower priced brand with many options. Lots of people start with one of the Ender 3 models, a very affordable (under $200) FDM printer. They also offer some larger FDM printers at good prices. These do tend to require a bit of tinkering and many people make upgrades to their printer over time. There ae different models of Ender 3, the cheapest of them being bare bones, and the higher priced include many of the popular options. They do offer a couple of resin printers, but I have heard very little about these. The company is best known for their FDM printers.

Artillery is another popular budget printer brand, with FDM printers starting at $200.

Prusa Research is out of the Czech Republic. Their printers are more expensive than many, but they are well made with good company support. They also include many of the options that people eventually add to their cheaper printers as standard features so that higher price comes with actual benefits. Prusa is popular with people who don't want to spend a lot of time tinkering with their printer. The Prusa 3 ($650) has been their flagship model, but they now have an improved Prusa 4 ($1099), as well as a smaller less expensive Prusa Mini ($429). These are all FDM printers (filament). They now also offer a resin printer as well but it is not entry level priced ($2000).

I bought the Prusa 3 as a kit to save some money, and it has the best set of assembly instructions that I have ever run across. It also comes with gummy bears so you can reward yourself as you build it (when to eat gummy bears is even included in the instructions  ). 


Elegoo is one of the more recent companies and they offer some very nicely priced and featured printers, both FDM and resin type. Their Mars printer was one of the first really hobbyist affordable
 resin printers and their Jupiter one of the largest. They also offer a cleaning tank and turntable type curing station to go with their resin printers. 

Anycubic is another newer brand, and offers a range of printers and accessories comparable to Elegoo in price and function.

Bambu Lab has been getting a lot of positive attention lately. They only offer FDM printers, no resin. They are on the higher end with their cheapest printer starting at $300. Apparently very good printers though with some advanced features like being able to print with multiple strands of filament allowing multiple colors on one printed part.


Hope this helps. Like I said this whole thing is just one more rabbit hole to go down, but very neat technology. 

[aaronw]

Dec 23, 2023 20:00:32 GMT -5 jeaton01 said:

I have the Elegoo Mars 2 Pro, don't know what it's resolution is as it doesn't give it as a K factor.  Here are the specs they do give:

XY res.: 50 Microns (2560 x 1620 pixels)

Z axis res.: 0.00125mm

Layer res.: 0.01-0.2mm

Printing speed: 30-50mm/h

Printer size: 200mm x 200mm x 410mm

Build volume: 129mm x 80mm x 160mm

Material: UV Resin

Net weight: 6.2kg

Mars 2 is 2K, Mars 3 is 4K and the newest Mars 4 is 6K.

I watched a video about a year ago comparing the Mars 2 to the Mars 3 and from what I could see 2K resolution is plenty for most of the things I could see most plastic modelers making. I think you would have to be doing very small, intricate parts, or large scale figures to really get the full effect of 6K, or better.

[rudyaguilar]

You know until I read your post I didn't even think about different type of printer, like resin. Thanks! Gives me another thing to look into. 

[rudyaguilar]

Thank you! I'll have to look into this printer. Seems fairly reasonable in price. Would you recommend buying new when it comes to these things? I'm always nervous when it comes to buying used electronics. 

[406 Silverado]

jeaton01, roland66 and aaronw : What a ton of information that I didn't know about!! Thank you all for the feedback and educating us that don't know about 3D printers. Aaron you gave a wealth of info in your post and is all info that I'll be using in looking for a printer of my own.

+1 Karma to all three of you.

[rudyaguilar]

I must say that I'm really glad I asked on here because I didn't even know their was a different type of 3D printer, (resin and filament). I would have just bought one with the best reviews online. It's funny you talk about how the price has come down. The reason I'm looking into them just now is because the last time I saw the process was abut ten years ago and it was like $1200 for the one at my local Best Buy. My wallet to this day is still crying at me even thinking about buying one back then.

But if I'm understanding right, resin is better for more fine detailed parts, with filament being for more stressed parts. So for example, I'm wanting to do conversions for die-cast Indy Cars. Sometimes things like the wheels, tires and suspension need to be custom made because they are wrong on the donor car. Would a filament printer be best for things like those since they are holding the weight of the actual car itself?

[rudyaguilar]

Agreed! Thank you all!

[406 Silverado]

Dec 24, 2023 10:36:19 GMT -5 rudyaguilar said:

Agreed! Thank you all!

and a +1 Karma to you for coming here and being active. Keep 'er comin' Rudy......we're glad you're here. 

[Green KreationZ]

I have been on the fence on getting an Elegoo Saturn for a few years. Eventually I’ll pull the trigger, but haven’t yet. Plenty of YouTube reviews on them. 

[roland66]

Rudy,

please bear in mind that you will always have slight steps with a filament printer. You have to rework this. With resin printers, this is much, much less. I have a filament print from the Mandalorian. If I have time tomorrow, I'll take a photo.

[aaronw]

Dec 24, 2023 10:35:23 GMT -5 rudyaguilar said:

I must say that I'm really glad I asked on here because I didn't even know their was a different type of 3D printer, (resin and filament). I would have just bought one with the best reviews online. It's funny you talk about how the price has come down. The reason I'm looking into them just now is because the last time I saw the process was abut ten years ago and it was like $1200 for the one at my local Best Buy. My wallet to this day is still crying at me even thinking about buying one back then.

But if I'm understanding right, resin is better for more fine detailed parts, with filament being for more stressed parts. So for example, I'm wanting to do conversions for die-cast Indy Cars. Sometimes things like the wheels, tires and suspension need to be custom made because they are wrong on the donor car. Would a filament printer be best for things like those since they are holding the weight of the actual car itself?

The resin in resin printers is similar to aftermarket cast resin parts. It is not flimsy, but it is brittle. I think any static model parts that you would typically use resin aftermarket parts for would be fine with resin printed parts. Where it seems the filament printers excel is guys making tool organizers, cosplay props, wargaming or diorama terrain etc.

With wargamers and roleplaying gamers I've seen many who will use resin for the miniature figures, and then a filament printer for all the "stuff" on the map since it can take more bumping and jostling, and a large filament printer is cheaper than a large resin printer. With size, the entry level resin printers have a build volume around 3-1/2 x 5-1/2" by 6-1/2" tall. The entry level filament printers are typically 8-1/2x8-1/2 by 9-1/2" tall so considerably larger.



Both Elegoo and Anycubic have introduced new printers this year, and are selling off their older models at discounted prices. Elegoo has the Mars 3 on sale for $185 and Anycubic their Photon Mono 2 for $179. These are very similar 4K machines, I went with the Elegoo Saturn 2, simply because they had a better deal going on that size printer when I was buying. Either of these should be a good starting point.

They also sell wash & cure stations starting around $100. These are often bundled with printers for a discounted price. Not required but to me it seemed like a worthwhile cost for time and labor saving.


 

[rudyaguilar]

Thank you for all the info! I've been hearing more and more about the Elegoo models so I think once I'm able that will be the route I go. Specifically the Saturn 3 seems to intrigue me the most.

[aaronw]

Sorry for the delayed response, I've been out with the flu and brain wasn't running well.


The Saturn 3 will give you a lot of options, good size build area and 12K resolution will give you plenty of detail. Crazy that it is down to $399, I think that would have gotten you a Mars size printer just a year or two ago. I went with the Saturn 2 last year, I figured it might be more than I needed, but how often do people complain that they have too much. Of course now the Saturn 3 is out for $50 more and I haven't actually printed anything yet, ah the wonders of rapidly advancing technology.

You do have to use compatible resin to get the most out of the higher resolution, but you can use lower resolution resins as well, at least that is the case with the Saturn 2. I can use 8K resin or just use the standard 4K resin, there isn't much difference in price, but there does seem to be more options with the standard resin as far as colors and such, so nice to be able to use either. Just don't mix the resins, and you can buy extra tanks allowing you to easily swap between resin types.


Here is a video showing the difference between 2K and 12K resolution.



The 12K does have much better resolution, but keep in mind he is looking at very small detail under a microscope. Obviously a big deal to this guy, and the 2K does look kind of crude until you look at how grainy the match head is for some context.

I think it is kind of like photography where even the low end is more than the average consumer probably can appreciate. 2K is still pretty good, and almost all of the current generation resin printers are at least 4K so even finer than the "low quality" example in this video.

If I was making AA guns for 1/350 model ships, I could see pushing for the higher end, but I think most model people would be content even with the older 2K printers.   



I recently ran across this guy who covers a lot of 3D printer and CAD topics. I've watched a lot of good 3D printer related youtube stuff, but have found this guy to have a very easy to follow style. I learned more about using FreeCAD in less than 2 hours of his videos, than the dozens of hours I've watched previously. I find his low key, and very methodical teaching style easy to follow along with. 


www.youtube.com/@makewithtech