"F" Fighter Series Group Build

[stikpusher]

What's interesting about the old Navy system is that two companies could hold the same letter at the same time. M was both Martin and General Motors during WWII. The PBM (Martin) and TBM (General Motors) were built by two different manufacturers, yet under the concept of the Bureau of Aeronautics system, they should not have had the same company designator at the same time.

[jeaton01]

Yeah, it seemed like in WW II they just threw their hands up and said "Whatever". Before that they made some attempt to keep order.

[aaronw]

Jan 4, 2024 0:59:45 GMT -5 stikpusher said:

What's interesting about the old Navy system is that two companies could hold the same letter at the same time. M was both Martin and General Motors during WWII. The PBM (Martin) and TBM (General Motors) were built by two different manufacturers, yet under the concept of the Bureau of Aeronautics system, they should not have had the same company designator at the same time.

They had some other weirdness too, like Douglas had been given D, but then the USN reassigned D to McDonnell when they proposed the Phantom (1) because Douglas hadn't built any fighters for the Navy. Then before the Phantom entered production, Douglas entered the competition for a Naval night fighter (F3D Skyknight) so they gave D back to Douglas. As a result the McDonnel Phantom was initially the FD-1, but became the FH-1 before it entered service. Of course later McDonnell and Douglas would merge which would have just added to the issues if they had still been using that system.

One of those systems that seems like a good idea, but can add confusion over time. Not that letter / number is without it's issues with things like Light Tank M3 (Stewart), Medium Tank M3 (Lee / Grant),  Scout Car M3, Half Track Personnel Carrier M3, 75mm Gun Motor Carriage M3 (half track with a big gun), 37mm Gun M3, 75mm Gun M3, 90mm Gun M3, 2 Inch Mortar M3, Submachine Gun Cal .45 M3...  I can see why they started giving things names.   

[aaronw]

On further thought, I think just requiring that the fighter has to be supersonic would be a simple way to eliminate the Korean War era jets. The F-100 Super Sabre was the first US fighter capable of exceeding the speed of sound in level flight. The Harrier is the only modern fighter I can think of that can't reach Mach 1.

[tcoat]

Jan 4, 2024 1:20:31 GMT -5 jeaton01 said:

Yeah, it seemed like in WW II they just threw their hands up and said "Whatever". Before that they made some attempt to keep order.

Didn't help that by the end of the war you didn't know who was actually making what after all the licensing and build for were said and done.

[stikpusher]

Jan 4, 2024 12:53:47 GMT -5 aaronw said:

On further thought, I think just requiring that the fighter has to be supersonic would be a simple way to eliminate the Korean War era jets. The F-100 Super Sabre was the first US fighter capable of exceeding the speed of sound in level flight. The Harrier is the only modern fighter I can think of that can't reach Mach 1.

Well... technically the Harrier is a strike/attack aircraft, and not a fighter. At least under most of its designations AV-8 and GR. Now the Fleet Air Arm FRS types are fighters... I wonder if the Harrier can go supersonic in a dive, like other "transsonic" types such as the Hawker Hunter?
But yes, supersonic does sound like a good way to cut off the types. 

[aaronw]

Jan 4, 2024 15:36:12 GMT -5 stikpusher said:

Jan 4, 2024 12:53:47 GMT -5 aaronw said:

On further thought, I think just requiring that the fighter has to be supersonic would be a simple way to eliminate the Korean War era jets. The F-100 Super Sabre was the first US fighter capable of exceeding the speed of sound in level flight. The Harrier is the only modern fighter I can think of that can't reach Mach 1.

Well... technically the Harrier is a strike/attack aircraft, and not a fighter. At least under most of its designations AV-8 and GR. Now the Fleet Air Arm FRS types are fighters... I wonder if the Harrier can go supersonic in a dive, like other "transsonic" types such as the Hawker Hunter?
But yes, supersonic does sound like a good way to cut off the types. 

Yeah, I was specifically thinking Sea Harrier which I think is the only one with F in the designation. I'd think it could break the sound barrier in a dive, maybe even in level flight on a day when atmospheric conditions are perfect. It is very close, just not quite there.

[jeaton01]

The F-86, even the F-86A, was supersonic in a dive. There is "evidence" that George Welch broke the sound barrier in an F-86A at Edwards a few days before Yeager did it for the record in the X-1. A fellow I worked with in aircraft sales had a plaque on the wall proclaiming him a member of the Mach Busters Club, he earned that in an F-86.

[dupes]

Jan 3, 2024 20:08:33 GMT -5 kyledehart5 said:

I’m not going to commit to this as I don’t have an F anything in my stash. But we’ll see where I’m at with builds when the time comes.

Ahhhh, but you certainly could!

[lyle]

Feb 19, 2024 10:47:55 GMT -5 dupes said:

Jan 3, 2024 20:08:33 GMT -5 kyledehart5 said:

I’m not going to commit to this as I don’t have an F anything in my stash. But we’ll see where I’m at with builds when the time comes.

Ahhhh, but you certainly could!

Maybe an F-150?

[armornutii]

Feb 19, 2024 10:47:55 GMT -5 dupes said:

Jan 3, 2024 20:08:33 GMT -5 kyledehart5 said:

I’m not going to commit to this as I don’t have an F anything in my stash. But we’ll see where I’m at with builds when the time comes.

Ahhhh, but you certainly could!

   Yea Kyle, you can find an F series somewhere

[Joe Rix]

Great idea for a GB Tony. When the time rolls around I will have to see where I am at prior to a commit. I certainly have plenty of candidates.

[406 Silverado]

Jan 3, 2024 13:11:59 GMT -5 Tojo72 said:

Jan 3, 2024 13:02:53 GMT -5 stikpusher said:

I’d be interested…
Under the current US system that started in 1962, there was F-1, F-2, and F-3 before the F-4 Phantom.

RAF types might be interesting as the F would be in an alphanumeric suffix to the name such as Hunter F.6 or Tornado F.3

Exactly,any F fighter, any origin, any country.

  Hey that's cool!! F.....W?? 

[406 Silverado]

Feb 19, 2024 10:57:20 GMT -5 lyle said:

Feb 19, 2024 10:47:55 GMT -5 dupes said:

Ahhhh, but you certainly could!

Maybe an F-150?

 Dude am I gonna have to get in my car and come up there??!! It's F-100!!! 

[kyledehart5]

Feb 19, 2024 10:57:20 GMT -5 lyle said:

Feb 19, 2024 10:47:55 GMT -5 dupes said:

Ahhhh, but you certainly could!

Maybe an F-150?

Funny…I do have one of those Mobius pickups somewhere

[kyledehart5]

Feb 19, 2024 10:47:55 GMT -5 dupes said:

Jan 3, 2024 20:08:33 GMT -5 kyledehart5 said:

I’m not going to commit to this as I don’t have an F anything in my stash. But we’ll see where I’m at with builds when the time comes.

Ahhhh, but you certainly could!

very interesting.

[tcoat]

Jan 3, 2024 13:11:59 GMT -5 Tojo72 said:

Exactly,any F fighter, any origin, any country.

[stikpusher]

Feb 19, 2024 12:25:26 GMT -5 406 Silverado said:

That is not a F-100....

THIS is a F-100!

[tcoat]

Feb 19, 2024 14:32:39 GMT -5 stikpusher said:

Feb 19, 2024 12:25:26 GMT -5 406 Silverado said:

That is not a F-100....

THIS is a F-100!

In fairness they are both big, chunky and loud.

[TJ]

I'm in with whatever is decided as the actual time period. I have it all in the stash

[stikpusher]

Feb 20, 2024 5:33:54 GMT -5 TJ said:

I'm in with whatever is decided as the actual time period. I have it all in the stash

Likewise! For USN types I have most everything from biplanes to Super Hornets…. For the USAF I have most types from when P- went to F-with the F-51 F-80 to todays F-22 & F-35.

[cbaltrin]

I'd be interested -- even if I am stupidly over-committed to builds this year already 

[stuart]

Technically, a postwar late mark Spitfire would qualify as it had an F in the desgination... Pretty certain it didn't go supersonice though.

[tcoat]

Apr 23, 2024 7:23:19 GMT -5 stuart said:

Technically, a postwar late mark Spitfire would qualify as it had an F in the desgination... Pretty certain it didn't go supersonice though.

Maybe briefly. Once.

[406 Silverado]

Apr 23, 2024 8:11:35 GMT -5 tcoat said:

Apr 23, 2024 7:23:19 GMT -5 stuart said:

Technically, a postwar late mark Spitfire would qualify as it had an F in the desgination... Pretty certain it didn't go supersonice though.

Maybe briefly. Once.

  LOL!!!! 

[Tojo72]

Getting bogged down lately,I will look at this again at years end.

Any "F JET FIGHTER",any country or origin,but still open for discussion.

[thechaos]

Very interesting i have a lot of F Fighter in my Stash, Phanthom, Wildcat, Hellcat, F-111, F16, Bearcat, F-104, F-117, F-19, F-18, Banschee, F-82, F-86, Fury, F-5, F-84, Corsair, 

[Quinny]

Don't forget the F-111, First flight, 21 December 1964

[stikpusher]

Jun 11, 2024 0:04:11 GMT -5 Quinny said:

Don't forget the F-111, First flight, 21 December 1964

Although in its' actual service, it had about the same air to air capability as the A-10 or A-7. It should have had an A or B series prefix identifier and not a F. Even if the F-111B gone in service with the US Navy, it was gonna be a stand off missile armed interceptor/bomber destroyer and no sort of dogfighter. 

[Quinny]

Jun 11, 2024 8:00:12 GMT -5 stikpusher said:

Jun 11, 2024 0:04:11 GMT -5 Quinny said:

Don't forget the F-111, First flight, 21 December 1964

Although in its' actual service, it had about the same air to air capability as the A-10 or A-7. It should have had an A or B series prefix identifier and not a F. Even if the F-111B gone in service with the US Navy, it was gonna be a stand off missile armed interceptor/bomber destroyer and no sort of dogfighter. 

Correct. I would tend to agree with that - After all, we did replace our aging Canberra bombers with the F-111 (or would have, had they been delivered on time) - I think the US rented us some F4's in the meantime ...