Monogram White Box 1/48 P-61A

[jeaton01]

Kyle's post and all the enthusiasm got me to get out and start on one of my Monogram P-61 kits.  I know that the newer kits suffer from flash and poor fit, so it will be fun to see what an original kit might build like, though sometimes with age I think plastic can shrink and this kit won't be avoiding those issues.

Here are the sprues:

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[kyledehart5]

Oh I can’t wait to watch this. Wish I’d taken photos of my sprues. Yours are certainly much, much cleaner. But the flash didn’t bother me.

[cbaltrin]

That kit's a pile of fun John. Have a good time with it.

[stikpusher]

I’m looking forward to seeing how a White Box edition builds up. There are so many complaints over the newer boxings.

[Medicman71]

Can't wait to see your build. I'm sure you'll make it look great!

[kyledehart5]

Jan 25, 2024 1:17:57 GMT -5 stikpusher said:

I’m looking forward to seeing how a White Box edition builds up. There are so many complaints over the newer boxings.

The molds show their age for sure but knock the flash off and test fit everything with a bit of patience and all is fine. I’m also curious to see if the white box edition builds up any better or easier. 

[lyle]

Go, John!

[tcoat]

OK OK that does it! I will start one of mine so we can compare old to new. This will be a down and dirty OOB build anyway. since I have 3 more to get fancy with later. 

[kyledehart5]

Jan 25, 2024 15:09:51 GMT -5 tcoat said:

OK OK that does it! I will start one of mine so we can compare old to new. This will be a down and dirty OOB build anyway. since I have 3 more to get fancy with later. 

Excellent!! Comparison builds! Can’t wait to see these both going. 

[jeaton01]

Here's some useful information from a book I have on the P-61, "Darly Dangerous, The Northrop P-61 Black Widow Night Fighter", by Frederick A. Johnson.

[keavdog]

Jan 25, 2024 1:17:57 GMT -5 stikpusher said:

I’m looking forward to seeing how a White Box edition builds up. There are so many complaints over the newer boxings.

Me too.  There are white box kits around, so it will be interesting to see if she goes together well.

[tcoat]

Jan 26, 2024 17:49:31 GMT -5 jeaton01 said:

Here's some useful information from a book I have on the P-61, "Darly Dangerous, The Northrop P-61 Black Widow Night Fighter", by Frederick A. Johnson.

In typical military fashion I think I am more confused after reading this than I was before. Are the interior surfaces interior green, with some exterior colours on visible sections and pure ZC paint on the floor? Are the landing gear bays left plain metal?

[TJ]

Tony I read the LG bays and the interior of the cowling are natural metal

[tcoat]

Jan 26, 2024 19:01:08 GMT -5 TJ said:

Tony I read the LG bays and the interior of the cowling are natural metal

But before that it says "all" aluminum surfaces must be ZC. It just says no "camo" paint in the wheel wells.

[tcoat]

Jan 26, 2024 19:06:31 GMT -5 tcoat said:

Jan 26, 2024 19:01:08 GMT -5 TJ said:

Tony I read the LG bays and the interior of the cowling are natural metal

But before that it says "all" aluminum surfaces must be ZC. It just says no "camo" paint in the wheel wells.

John

[jeaton01]

Certainly guessing is going to be involved since there are only 3 P-61's left and one of those was recovered after sitting for years wrecked in the jungle.  Since the cowlings are singled out for bare aluminum but the wheel wells are not I think the wheel wells are covered by the second to last paragraph in the first column, using zinc chromate primer in two coats.   Wheel wells are generally pretty nasty places bare aluminum would be unlikely.Since everything else in primer is yellow green, I'm using green zinc Chromate and not yellow zinc chromate. I added 10% black to the green zinc chromate for visible areas of the crew compartments. I will be painting the seat backs black as I have a photo showing them padded and it looks like Monogram put padding on the seat backs but not the bottom of the seat. I assume the seat bottom padding was provided by the parachutes. There is silver and black on the sighting apparatus as shown by this photo:

Photos from Osprey "P-61 Black Widow Units of World War 2" by Warren Thompson.

[tcoat]

Jan 26, 2024 21:01:07 GMT -5 jeaton01 said:

Certainly guessing is going to be involved since there are only 3 P-61's left and one of those was recovered after sitting for years wrecked in the jungle.  Since the cowlings are singled out for bare aluminum but the wheel wells are not I think the wheel wells are covered by the second to last paragraph in the first column, using zinc chromate primer in two coats.   Wheel wells are generally pretty nasty places bare aluminum would be unlikely.Since everything else in primer is yellow green, I'm using green zinc Chromate and not yellow zinc chromate. I added 10% black to the green zinc chromate for visible areas of the crew compartments. I will be painting the seat backs black as I have a photo showing them padded and it looks like Monogram put padding on the seat backs but not the bottom of the seat. I assume the seat bottom padding was provided by the parachutes. There is silver and black on the sighting apparatus as shown by this photo:

Photos from Osprey "P-61 Black Widow Units of World War 2" by Warren Thompson.

Excellent! That is what I was hoping to hear since I am not a fan of the yellow ZC at all. I did notice the weird side bulges on the seats but now they make sense as well. A lot of other forums say the wheel well walls are "unpainted" but I interpret the info sheet you posted here as meaning they are indeed primered but not painted a finish colour. Inside the engine cowlings makes perfect sense to be bare metal since the heat would probably bake off any primer anyway.

[cbaltrin]

Looks like you have some good reference info to go on John. To bad time travel has not been invented yet though, eh?

[tcoat]

Jan 26, 2024 21:32:08 GMT -5 cbaltrin said:

Looks like you have some good reference info to go on John. To bad time travel has not been invented yet though, eh?

I knew John was the man on this subject when I was trying to get clear info last night. Was looking through the ARC and all they did was argue (and boy some of those guys were JERKS) about the colours so I left there and found a thread in FSM from 2007. John was talking on the subject and about his books so I figured I would take his word as gospel. Or at least a best educated guess! Normally I would spend weeks researching but I am not that interested in the subject matter so will be lazy.

[jeaton01]

I've been collecting information on the P-61 for quite a while, and the two books I have cited are among the best I have found, the best of all that I have is Volume 15 of Wings of Fame, which has a 65 page article also by Warren Thompson.  A beautiful publication all on heavy high gloss paper which makes for great photo reproduction.  Kinda seems like it was great airplane that did its job and then got forgotten. Jets and all that. I don't think it was in Korea, the F-82 and F-94 were around then.

[tcoat]

Jan 26, 2024 22:52:14 GMT -5 jeaton01 said:

I've been collecting information on the P-61 for quite a while, and the two books I have cited are among the best I have found, the best of all that I have is Volume 15 of Wings of Fame, which has a 65 page article also by Warren Thompson.  A beautiful publication all on heavy high gloss paper which makes for great photo reproduction.  Kinda seems like it was great airplane that did its job and then got forgotten. Jets and all that. I don't think it was in Korea, the F-82 and F-94 were around then.

Most were salvaged (read scrapped) at their last base in 1944 to 1945. A few seem to have lasted to 1948 but that was rare. 


www.forgottenprops.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/p-61_black_widow.html 

[stikpusher]

Jan 26, 2024 22:52:14 GMT -5 jeaton01 said:

I've been collecting information on the P-61 for quite a while, and the two books I have cited are among the best I have found, the best of all that I have is Volume 15 of Wings of Fame, which has a 65 page article also by Warren Thompson.  A beautiful publication all on heavy high gloss paper which makes for great photo reproduction.  Kinda seems like it was great airplane that did its job and then got forgotten. Jets and all that. I don't think it was in Korea, the F-82 and F-94 were around then.

From what I've read, the last P-61s were retired a few months before the Korean War started. The F-82 had replaced them and the F-94 was just coming into service to replace the F-82.

[jeaton01]

A bit of a start on my P-61. Staying with out of the box except for a PE face for the pilot's instrument panel from a True Details set, and I will be using a cowl from another kit so I can have two cowled engines both with cowl flaps open.

I was surprised to see that the decal set in the kit comes with a number of placards for the interior.  The back bulkhead will straighten up when it is fit to the fuselage, it is only supported on the floor on one side.  Seat belts are next.

[kyledehart5]

Sweet!! Off to a great start!!

[jeaton01]

Test fitting fuselage components now. The front gunner's sight sits higher than it should and just touches the canopy, I will cut it off and shorten it some. I do believe that is a fault of the kit and not of how I placed it. The front canopy fit is very good except for the top and the corners at the back. From studying photos I believe the issue is the fuselage top is just a bit too high, and I will resolve that issue by filing down the fuselage a bit. The top corner radii are also too sharp on the fuselage and the radius there should keep getting larger until it meets the canopy, that is clearly visible in photos. The fuselage actually gets a bit squarer as it meets the canopy and that ain't right. The photo on the white box kit is from that time when truth in advertising made them put a picture of a finished model on the box and that photo looks just like my parts, and I believe the mismatch is somewhat visible in a crop from a photo in Shep Paine's diorama pamphlet, although it does look like he improved the corners. Least work alternative is to grind on the top of the fuselage a bit and that is what I am going to do.

The last image is from the production line and on the airplane on the right you can see that there is a separate section of metal that forms the increasing curve, going from nearly square in the turret area to the same rounded radius of the canopy when it reaches it.

[kyledehart5]

That's looking good. I also had to grind down on that area with the 2015 boxing. Can't remember about the gunner's sight.

[Joe Rix]

This is going to be one to watch. I am quite sure you will whip this notorious kit into shape John.

[handiabled]

No doubt you will get the canopy fitting much better

[406 Silverado]

Man there is sure a latest and greatest craze for building these older Revell P-61's as of late. I tried tackling one when I was in my teen years but didn't too hot of a job of it. Looking at what you guys are doing with these is pretty inspirational. Good start on this so far John.

[tcoat]

Jan 30, 2024 5:50:45 GMT -5 406 Silverado said:

Man there is sure a latest and greatest craze for building these older Revell P-61's as of late. I tried tackling one when I was in my teen years but didn't too hot of a job of it. Looking at what you guys are doing with these is pretty inspirational. Good start on this so far John.

I blame Kyle