Question for the Diorama Guru's here

[outerlimtz]

So i've built my first two tanks. Now I want to try my hand at a diorama. I have another tank I am building that i've done research on. I've watched a lot of videos on diorama building, however, none of them go into detail on materials.

I am building Panzer 223 from Stoumont '44. From my research, this is what i want to "try" and build.

Somewhere in the yellow area, as the tracks are an important focal point.

The damaged tanks won't be part of the this, as it's a build just before the battle.

So here are my questions, if you don't mind.

1. What is the best material to use for the base? Foam (what type), clay, other?

    I ask because i've seen a lot if the youtube videos. But i would like something a bit newb friendly.

2. I've read and heard in videos, that you build the diorama around the model. That being said, my math really does suck.

    Since it's 1/35 scale, roughly how wide does this look like it would be to get the road, section of train tracks and the curve?

3. Who makes the best German foliage in 1/35th scale?

    I don't want to try and make my own yet. This project is going to be big enough. And all i have at the local HL is HO scale.

4. Depending on the base material, what would be the best paints for that. Tamiya acrylics, Valejio,AK Interactive?

    I will most likely use some of either the Ammo paint or AK interactive for the wet ground and puddles. As well as the snow tufts.

Yup, this is an ambitious project. But it's the only way to learn, right!

I appreciate any insight, help and idea's. Oh, and you can blame Eric since he's the one who got me modeling armor!!

[406 Silverado]

Jul 5, 2024 10:18:57 GMT -5 outerlimtz said:

So i've built my first two tanks. Now I want to try my hand at a diorama. I have another tank I am building that i've done research on. I've watched a lot of videos on diorama building, however, none of them go into detail on materials.

I am building Panzer 223 from Stoumont '44. From my research, this is what i want to "try" and build.

Yup, this is an ambitious project. But it's the only way to learn, right!

I appreciate any insight, help and idea's. Oh, and you can blame Eric since he's the one who got me modeling armor!!

  Hey OL! It's great to see you stepping out and trying your hand at different things and now dioramas. I haven't ventured out into this genre of modeling as of yet but there are several folks who come to mind right off the bat and I'll apologize ahead of time if I'm forgetting anybody but here's a short list of who you could consult with.

Steve Zuleski

Green KreationZ

tiking

creading

fermis

M1Carbine

[Green KreationZ]

I will soon be building a diorama for two 1/48 planes. I will try to document my process thoroughly for you.

The only area that I would be weak on based on your photo is trees, as I’ve not had a need to use one in any of my diorama (other than stumps or logs)

[creading]

Welcome to the diorama world and I hope you have a large area to keep/show them. Dioramas,(or building them) is very addictive and it's sort of a given that you'll never be totally happy with your latest project thus spurring you on to "do better next time" This falls under the adage of "you are your own worst critic"
I'm going to mention here (and this is not aimed at you)that I've seen many 'first timers' building dioramas that initially want to bite off way more than they can handle. I remember a forum conversation years ago where the newbie says "I have a 4'X 4' sheet of plywood and I'm making a diorama of the Normandy landings. It'll have landing ships, allied soldiers storming the beaches, cliffs and rangers scaling them plus all the German defenders' Needless to say, his first effort soured him on dioramas forever.
Start small and build up.
First off, decide what you want the diorama to show (is it a scene from a photo? is it going to tell a story?)
Draw it out in an overhead view, roughly to scale placing everything in the scene where you want it. You can move stuff around until you find a view that pleases you.

"1. What is the best material to use for the base? Foam (what type), clay, other?
I ask because i've seen a lot if the youtube videos. But i would like something a bit newb friendly."

I like to work on a round base because it can be viewed from any direction. You don't have the confines of a front or back. That said, any base I use starts as 3/4" plywood cut to the desired size.
On the plywood "sub-base" I use insulation foam board or Cell-u-clay, or a combination of both. Cell-u-clay is basically paper mâché.
If there is height variations I'd use the insulation foam and carve in the height levels then use a thin layer of the cell-u-clay to cover everything.
I have mixed in finely ground yard debris and twigs to give the groundwork a more realistic look when finished.

"2. I've read and heard in videos, that you build the diorama around the model. That being said, my math really does suck.
Since it's 1/35 scale, roughly how wide does this look like it would be to get the road, section of train tracks and the curve?"

Again, you have to determine what size you want the diorama to be. You may find that in 1:35 scale you will probably have to condense things into a workable area.

"3. Who makes the best German foliage in 1/35th scale?
I don't want to try and make my own yet. This project is going to be big enough. And all i have at the local HL is HO scale."

The pines on the side of the road in your photo look to me like you could use HO scale pines cut and adjusted to the scene. The large stumps and damaged trees can easily be made from twigs and small branches. The very large trees can be purchased from places like Scenic Express, Woodland Scenics and Green Stuff World. You'll probably have to tweak them to fit your scene.

"4. Depending on the base material, what would be the best paints for that. Tamiya acrylics, Valejio,AK Interactive?
I will most likely use some of either the Ammo paint or AK interactive for the wet ground and puddles. As well as the snow tufts."

Once you have your base done (prior to trees, tank & figures) I rattle-spray the entire piece in black primer (pre-shade). If you are using insulation foam you need to seal it with acrylic paint before using a lacquer/enamel based spray otherwise the foam will melt! The purpose of the dark under spray is to keep all the underlying ground, crevices, etc in shadows.
Once the base work is completely black I airbrush earth tones from various directions attempting to cover the black as much as possible but leaving a hint of darkness in the recesses.
Once this dries I use various washes, browns, greens etc. depending on what season I'm depicting. Please note, for base paint I use the cheapest paints I have waiting to use the Tamiya, Mig, Vallejo etc. after all the large paint eating expanses are thoroughly covered.

The above is sort of a thumbnail sketch of my take on the questions asked, I hope it makes sense and is somewhat useful.
I've been building dioramas since the early 90's and with every one I still learn different methods, tweak old methods and often times just mistake my way into something that works. If you think something will work, try it.
Things I've learned the hard way- The base takes just as much effort and thought as the model you are putting on it.

Good luck and have fun with the diorama,
Cheers,
C.

[project510]

Jul 5, 2024 10:18:57 GMT -5 outerlimtz said:

So i've built my first two tanks. Now I want to try my hand at a diorama. I have another tank I am building that i've done research on. I've watched a lot of videos on diorama building, however, none of them go into detail on materials.

I am building Panzer 223 from Stoumont '44. From my research, this is what i want to "try" and build.

Somewhere in the yellow area, as the tracks are an important focal point.

The damaged tanks won't be part of the this, as it's a build just before the battle.

So here are my questions, if you don't mind.

1. What is the best material to use for the base? Foam (what type), clay, other?

    I ask because i've seen a lot if the youtube videos. But i would like something a bit newb friendly.

2. I've read and heard in videos, that you build the diorama around the model. That being said, my math really does suck.

    Since it's 1/35 scale, roughly how wide does this look like it would be to get the road, section of train tracks and the curve?

3. Who makes the best German foliage in 1/35th scale?

    I don't want to try and make my own yet. This project is going to be big enough. And all i have at the local HL is HO scale.

4. Depending on the base material, what would be the best paints for that. Tamiya acrylics, Valejio,AK Interactive?

    I will most likely use some of either the Ammo paint or AK interactive for the wet ground and puddles. As well as the snow tufts.

Yup, this is an ambitious project. But it's the only way to learn, right!

I appreciate any insight, help and idea's. Oh, and you can blame Eric since he's the one who got me modeling armor!!

I thought I would chime in here since I just completed my first, and was new same as you.

I've been researching, watching videos reading up for a while as I was planning on building a model train layout. Ended up building a Diorama base for a model train for my son.

1. For the base my advise is  the same as mentioned above. A wood base with foam on top. Even as a first timer, it was easy to use, and shape. You don't need any special tools you can literally use a sharp knife and some rasps. It gets messy so do it outside with a mask.
Its also affordable. Home Depot sells precut 24x24 squares which is perfect I think for us. 

2. Its not really about math. Im terrible at Math but in this case, its the easy part. You need to research and find the real life 1:1 measurements of the area you are trying to replicate. That's the difficult part. Then simply divide those numbers by 35. Im sure somewhere you can find a road with your tank on it, and estimate the width based off tank width and then add a few feet on each side. 

3. I have no idea who makes the best "German" foliage, but Woodland Scenics and other train scenery companies make such a wide variety Im sure you will find something that fits.

4. As already said, acrylic should be used for the base if you use foam so it doesn't damage it. I applied an earth toned base on my foam boards then went straight to the dirt, grass and rock. You can also apply the fake water over the acrylic to give you a realistic pool, pond puddle effect if thats what you are going for. 

Hope that helps. I  also watch train scenery videos on YouTube. Ton of info there since half of the model train hobby is building scenery.

Also, and I hate to keep plugging Woodland scenics, cuz I am sure there are other places.. but they also make these learning kits which are under $20 US and it provides enough material to make more than one Diorama. Its a very affordable way to get enough material to practice (which is what the kit si designed for) or jsut simply use it for your actual project.

[stuartv]

2. I've read and heard in videos, that you build the diorama around the model. That being said, my math really does suck.
Since it's 1/35 scale, roughly how wide does this look like it would be to get the road, section of train tracks and the curve?

Best thing is sketch it out first in plan view, then make paper cut outs for your tank, trees etc. Play around with the layout, then do as I did ask the guys on here for advice on adjusting your layout. I have some great advice for my Flak 37 Diorama and ended up with a kidney shaped base for it. Not saying that is the right shape for your but it can evolve with your fellow modellers advice.

3. Who makes the best German foliage in 1/35th scale?
I don't want to try and make my own yet. This project is going to be big enough. And all i have at the local HL is HO scale.

AK make some great foliage.

[outerlimtz]

Hey, thanks for the input. I know i'm biting off more than I can chew. I did that with the two tank builds. However, it's the only way I am going to learn. I understand the "worst critic." I am and always have been in everything i've done. But it only pushed me.

I have some ideas on how I want this layed out, so i'll start mocking it with paper. Other than the dio itself, it's just going to have the tank and tank crew. I am trying to keep that simple, as I think I have a good way of handling that.

Guess i'll have to start writing about this journey as well. This going to be patience testing!!

[dukemaddog]

Go for it man! I will be learning right alongside you. We all have faith in you.

[Steve Zuleski]

A lot of great questions, O, and from what you've got for a reference pic you could begin the layout to replicate this scene on paper, and go for it. There's actually a lot of prep work that goes into a dio, and like the guys are saying, it's not difficult at all, just takes patience, as you already know, and quite a bit of trial and error. For me, what I thought in the beginning doesn't always turn out in the end, so be flexible.

The suggestions above are spot as far as I’m concerned, they’ve pegged it quite well. And forget the math, IMHO, it plays very little from my experience. This is all about perception, and quite often, how this scene will play to the “camera”. If you look closely at some of the incredible dios on the web, like on Pinterest, for example, you’ll see how some artists have used depth perception and illusion to create a specific visual effect resulting in some incredible scenes, leaving you scratching your head wondering how they did it. Your imagination is the only limit, and there is usually always a way to make something work the way you intend. That’s part of the fun, figuring it out and making it happen.

Personally, I always go through a simple set of steps, not always in order, but generally. I have the scenario in mind, draft it on paper, research the accuracy of my intentions, (historical for me most of the time, but not always), gather the building materials, vehicles, figures, etc. Once everything is set it’s time to build. I’ve kinda followed an old rule that says to do the figures first, then vehicles, then base. I heard it said many moons ago that if you do the vehicles and base before the figures, you will “rush” to the finish and the quality of your figures will be lacking. I found this to be true personally, so I work accordingly.

Also, keep referencing those YT vids as you go along. You might see something you missed or even find a better way to go about doing a particular application, and so on. Making pine trees is available from several YT posters as well as making a realistic base, ground work, etc. Don’t discount reference books either, they’ve gotten most of us through many dios long before the inet and I usually always have them on the easel in front of me when I’m building, just a habit. Sometimes I forget how I did something in the past, or even the proper sequence on certain applications and have to go back and relearn a procedure. It happens the younger we get, don'tcha find? HA! That’s when I remember to dig out the reference book and “read the instructions”.

You're just getting started, so the main thing is to have fun with this process. I don’t think you’re taking too big of a bite, O, just play with it and see how it goes. You’ll know how it’s going and adjust as needed. I started with Shep Paine’s diorama inserts from the old Monogram kits from the 70’s. Sweet, simple, and a boatload of fun to build. The materials were all simple items, so remember, you don’t need to dump a lot of $$ into making a dio work.

Have fun, O, and post em when ya got em! Cheers, Ski.



P.S. A lot of my veggie work, foliage, comes from my yard picked at different times of the year and stashed in the garage for whenever needed. Tomato roots work great for all kinds of foliage from trees to ivy vines, bushes, etc.

[M1Carbine]

More than happy to help anyway I can

1. What is the best material to use for the base? Foam (what type), clay, other?
- I use several methods:
- Wood base. I normally get these at stores such as Hobby Lobby and Michaels here in the states (Found in the wood working section). They come in various shapes and sizes, can easily be stained or painted. On these I directly apply sculpting putties, Wood filler in small thin amounts and when shaped to the desired shape/form I will top off with something
like Vallejo or AK terrain textures. These can be painted and shaded to whatever gerund cover you may want.
- Second type of base I use is pink insulation foam found at home improvement stores. I usually go with the 1/2 inch and stack to various thicknesses so I can vary the terrain. Then on top same method with the terrain products of choice. be fair warned here, insulation foams are made to wick away moisture so adhesive choice here is key or it will never dry. I
use a hot glue gun or specific adhesives for foam. CA will melt it!

2. I've read and heard in videos, that you build the diorama around the model. That being said, my math really does suck.
- Size is a huge factor here especially at 1/35. To much and you may take away from the story you are trying to convey. I rarely use round bases unless it is for 1/48 scale tanks or aircraft. Square or rectangular works best for me and I fun the roadways angular off center from the middle. See below:







Again, you have to determine what size you want the diorama to be. You may find that in 1:35 scale you will probably have to condense things into a workable area. Like I said, To clutered and it will detract form the story or scene you are trying to convey to the viewer.

"3. Who makes the best German foliage in 1/35th scale?
- I use all sorts depending on the scene. HO scale cut to size works. I use seafoam cut to size and painted to the hue of the season. Grass and other items I source for Noch and Woodland Scenics. I also invested in a Static Grass applicator. Grass comes in various pre packaged sizes like 2,4 and 6mm
- I utilized Seafoam on a round base for a small 1/35 German 38(t). being small the round base worked here.





"4. Depending on the base material, what would be the best paints for that. Tamiya acrylics, Valejio,AK Interactive?
- Like i mentioned above, AK, Vallejo, even Tamiya makes ground textures. Tamiya's bottles tend to be on the small size. I find the Vallejo and AK bottles to be a good choice and you can get several bases done with one.

Everyone's answers are spot on. In the end it is what medium you find best and easiest that works for you.

Hope that helps. We are all here if you have any questions.

-Bob

[outerlimtz]

So this is a rough layout. I've let it sit for a few days, looked at it from all sides. Moved a few pieces here and there. Biggest problem I am having is that in the real photo, the road drive toward the tracks at a "T" before it curves. Here, i've pulled the tracks back at an angle. It may work, not sure.

Using the triangle rule taught to me in jr high art classes, each side has one or more "triangles" to draw into what I want you to see. Mainly the tank. Leaving the question, what's around the corner.

I drew in some scribbles where i though some shrubbery would go as well as labeled areas for ground cover. Currently, it's 14x16. I feel i need to pull that back by two inches with an inch of each side. I could probably get 12x12 and not lose much on the front or back.

[stuartv]

On your drawing have you thought about reducing the width of the area where the trees and bushes are on the left. Just have a line of trees. This will make it the natural front of the Dio, then you can have more depth at the back for the large tress and the tracks?

[Mike]

I've only completed one diorama thus far, but I am planning a second. Everyone who has posted before me are the guys I have been watching for ideas and learning a lot from. YouTube is full of clever ideas and I encourage you to use it as a resource. One thing I can add is to take your time and let the scene "evolve". There is no one right way to do it and you will find new ideas along the way.

My dio started with a cheap plaque from Hobby Lobby which I had just laid out a road onto with regular old plaster. I had a vague idea of what I wanted to represent and I used a lot of materials I found in my yard. Real dirt, real rocks, real plants. I then added more scale simulated plant life and grasses.







I didn't use the advantage of having an actual place or picture to use. I created mine slowly over time with just imagination and ingenuity. I inherited a tinker's talent from my Grandfather and it's always served me well. So I will repeat, take your time. If you put as much love into this as you obviously have the models themselves, you will only create a masterwork. You have full support here.

[outerlimtz]

Yes, I was thinking that. I just added the bushes at the last minute. it just looked too empty. But I do see where your coming from.