Ebbro 1/20 scale 1967 Lotus Type 49

[arcticwolf]

I've never seen the Ebbro kits, but the Tamiya 1/12th kits have one large glaring error. The 49 kit is good, but the 49B carries over most of the parts.

Lotus 49's used a Chapman preferred ZF box, it was a weak link. The 49B had a Hewland. The Tamiya B kit comes with a ZF, so if you want an accurate 49B model you need to swap in a Hewland from your parts box.

[joelw]

Paul,
I'm modeling the Lotus 49 that Walker ran until the British GP when he switched over to the B type. the Ebbro kit is a model of the 49 Type A, so I'm assuming that it has the correct gearbox.

I've spent so far all of the afternoon trying to find a good quality picture of the car, but the pictures from the 1960s are all over the place. I've found some nice model builds, but the few build threads didn't have any pictures of the real car. The color that your Type B is painted I've found several pictures of, but that doesn't help me with what the color of the A was. So I'm just going with a Dark Blue that many of his cars were painted in prior seasons with the reasoning that if that's the color he had available in his garage, that's the color that the car was painted back then.

joel

[arcticwolf]

Oct 3, 2024 13:31:48 GMT -5 joelw said:

Paul,
I'm modeling the Lotus 49 that Walker ran until the British GP when he switched over to the B type. the Ebbro kit is a model of the 49 Type A, so I'm assuming that it has the correct gearbox.

I've spent so far all of the afternoon trying to find a good quality picture of the car, but the pictures from the 1960s are all over the place. I've found some nice model builds, but the few build threads didn't have any pictures of the real car. The color that your Type B is painted I've found several pictures of, but that doesn't help me with what the color of the A was. So I'm just going with a Dark Blue that many of his cars were painted in prior seasons with the reasoning that if that's the color he had available in his garage, that's the color that the car was painted back then.

joel

It's easy Joel. Rob Walker was a Scot (think Johnny Walker). The cars were the national colour of Scotland.

[joelw]

paul,
You're a genius for sure. And yes Rob Walker's family owned John Walker Scotch. As for the color Blue I've got just the right Gravity color. Of course white is white.

joel

[arcticwolf]

Oct 3, 2024 18:54:36 GMT -5 joelw said:

paul,
You're a genius for sure. And yes Rob Walker's family owned John Walker Scotch. As for the color Blue I've got just the right Gravity color. Of course white is white.

joel

My apologies for the previous post Joel, I didn't mean the flag pic to be that big! 

It's the same as the blue Jaguar D Type colour at Le Mans - Ecurie Ecosse (Team Scotland).

PS: If you're using Indycals decal sheet, the number 16 is authentic for the Spanish GP also, which would have been the original 49.

cheers mate

[joelw]

Oct 3, 2024 21:12:43 GMT -5 arcticwolf said:

Oct 3, 2024 18:54:36 GMT -5 joelw said:

paul,
You're a genius for sure. And yes Rob Walker's family owned John Walker Scotch. As for the color Blue I've got just the right Gravity color. Of course white is white.

joel

My apologies for the previous post Joel, I didn't mean the flag pic to be that big! 

It's the same as the blue Jaguar D Type colour at Le Mans - Ecurie Ecosse (Team Scotland).

PS: If you're using Indycals decal sheet, the number 16 is authentic for the Spanish GP also, which would have been the original 49.

cheers mate

Paul,
  No need to apologize, the flag is just perfect.  Your knowledge, help, and advice has always been very helpful, and continues to be so.  As for the number 16, I did find a few B&W pics from the 1968 Spanish GP that showed the #16 on the nose but that's about it. Indy Cals is once again my super source for decals. I ordered that sheet and the KFC sheet for the Meng Audi LMS R8 car.

joel

[joelw]

LOTUS 49 TYPE A ON A STICK

  Not exactly your usual update led, but it works for this update, as it's all about painting the body sections from BRG to Rob Walker's team colors of what Paul came up with, Scottish Blue as in their national flag.  The issue is that there's no pre-mixed color that I could find on the Gravity of Spain site so I had to try and match the picture that Paul posted ( in this case larger is way better).  I've got a rather large collection of Gravity of Spain colors with 6 different shades of Blue. What I decided on was Ken Tyrrell's Dark Blue #GC 115 that he used on his 6 Wheelers.

  1st step was panel prep of a wash of ISO Alcohol, then taped to a stick:




  2nd step was priming with my custom light Grey mix of Tamiya's primers:




  3rd and final step was 5 light coats of the Gravity CG 115 paint




  While waiting for the paint to dry & cure I started on the front suspension but there's not much to see as yet, so it will have to wait for a later update.

   Next step is to very lightly rub out the paint with 5,000 then 8.000 Emery cloth and start the decaling process.

joel

[arcticwolf]

That should work nicely Joel. As you well know, even colour pics from back in the day don't help that much, depends on the film and the lab and how they aged, never mind the lighting.

[joelw]

Paul,
  Sure looks like the color is more then close enough. Besides once the body panels and nose cone go throught the entire final polishing/waxing, the deeper shine and gloss will darken the color ever so slightly. 

joel

[greg]

Sure do like that blue.

[joelw]

Greg,
Another vote for the color makes the decision just that much better.

joel

[greg]

Oct 7, 2024 18:11:03 GMT -5 joelw said:

Greg,
Another vote for the color makes the decision just that much better.

joel

Good!

Also, I notice that you said you will be decaling after a couple of light emery cloth passes. I've been wondering if Gravity paint users clear coat it before decaling, and again afterwards or not. I guess you don't so that helps me.

[kyledehart5]

Excellent work Joel!! Great update and that’s a really nice looking blue.

[joelw]

Oct 8, 2024 5:29:01 GMT -5 greg said:

Oct 7, 2024 18:11:03 GMT -5 joelw said:

Greg,
Another vote for the color makes the decision just that much better.

joel

Good!

Also, I notice that you said you will be decaling after a couple of light emery cloth passes. I've been wondering if Gravity paint users clear coat it before decaling, and again afterwards or not. I guess you don't so that helps me.

Greg
  I usually don't gloss coat before decaling unless there's a reason for it.  Decaling has nothing to do with a deep shine, as the surface can still be rough enough  to cause nooks & crannies which will trap air and water under the decal, and that's what gives you silvering/flash.  
    
  Surface prep for decaling requires a smooth consistent surface so that there's no water nor air trapped even after solutions and tamping down. The smoother the primer and the color coats are, the easier it is to get that smooth surface.  Since I air brush mostly Lacquers and Acrylic Lacquers where the paint doesn't contain any gloss additive, it's just light, even coats. Not stopping or or going back which causes their own issues.  The primer coat is 3 coats of a mix of Tamiya Lacquer primer then lighted sanded with a wet Tamiya 3,000 sponge.  Smooth surface and it affords the color coat an excellent surface to grip to.  The Lotus required 5 light coats, and will be polished out with 5,000 then 8,000 wet emery cloth.  Another benefit of the prep work is that you also have the base color coat for a deep gloss shine.


joel 

[joelw]

Kyle,
  Thanks for stopping by and your thumbs up for the color coats.

joel

[greg]

Oct 8, 2024 7:43:17 GMT -5 joelw said:

Oct 8, 2024 5:29:01 GMT -5 greg said:

Good!

Also, I notice that you said you will be decaling after a couple of light emery cloth passes. I've been wondering if Gravity paint users clear coat it before decaling, and again afterwards or not. I guess you don't so that helps me.

Greg
  I usually don't gloss coat before decaling unless there's a reason for it.  Decaling has nothing to do with a deep shine, as the surface can still be rough enough  to cause nooks & crannies which will trap air and water under the decal, and that's what gives you silvering/flash.  
    
  Surface prep for decaling requires a smooth consistent surface so that there's no water nor air trapped even after solutions and tamping down. The smoother the primer and the color coats are, the easier it is to get that smooth surface.  Since I air brush mostly Lacquers and Acrylic Lacquers where the paint doesn't contain any gloss additive, it's just light, even coats. Not stopping or or going back which causes their own issues.  The primer coat is 3 coats of a mix of Tamiya Lacquer primer then lighted sanded with a wet Tamiya 3,000 sponge.  Smooth surface and it affords the color coat an excellent surface to grip to.  The Lotus required 5 light coats, and will be polished out with 5,000 then 8,000 wet emery cloth.  Another benefit of the prep work is that you also have the base color coat for a deep gloss shine.


joel 

I appreciate your input here, Joel. Good stuff, thank you.

[joelw]

Greg,
  Believe me when I say that at best my air brushing results are about average.   Using the same exact technique and procedure, I don't get the same exact results every time. I've always charged that off being the many variables of using a air brush. But once in a while all the forces seem to come together at the right time, and the magic just happens.

  Here's my Tamiya 1/20 scale Camel Lotus with a nearly perfect deep gloss finish. This one truly amazed me. Yellow isn't exactly the best color for visible deep shine as it's just to bright, but it does shine done right.  Take a look at the top of the side pod for the depth of the shine.  
joel 

 

[greg]

Oct 8, 2024 12:57:06 GMT -5 joelw said:

Greg,
  Believe me when I say that at best my air brushing results are about average.   Using the same exact technique and procedure, I don't get the same exact results every time. I've always charged that off being the many variables of using a air brush. But once in a while all the forces seem to come together at the right time, and the magic just happens.

  Here's my Tamiya 1/20 scale Camel Lotus with a nearly perfect deep gloss finish. This one truly amazed me. Yellow isn't exactly the best color for visible deep shine as it's just to bright, but it does shine done right.  Take a look at the top of the side pod for the depth of the shine.  
joel 

 

It's comforting to hear that your airbrushing results aren't perfectly consistent. Mine certainly aren't.

That's one heck of an example. I've been around long enough to know that yellow is pretty much the toughest color to work with. I do see the reflection, depth on the right side.

I don't want to highjack your build thread, but I'm more used to beat up airplane finishes and am new to the shiny body work you gents do. Instead of posting a dedicated thread, I might post my questions in my Lotus WIP thread. If I strip and re-start my Lotus main body/nose one more time I might lose it. And if not that, I'm going to have to order another bottle of paint from Spain.

[joelw]

Greg.
I was a IPMS club member who basically lived for Club, Regionals, and even a few National contests, and only built aircraft since the 1970s till about 6 or so years ago. So I know just how different the paint applications are. But it's not rocket science, just a different set of procedures and applications. If I can learn to do it, anyone can. The trick is to find a set of procedures and stick with it rather then bouncing around hoping for the luck of the draw.

This site has a ton of great builders and great painters. Haven't met a single member who wasn't glad to help when asked.

joel

[greg]

Oct 8, 2024 18:24:22 GMT -5 joelw said:

Greg.
I was a IPMS club member who basically lived for Club, Regionals, and even a few National contests, and only built aircraft since the 1970s till about 6 or so years ago. So I know just how different the paint applications are. But it's not rocket science, just a different set of procedures and applications. If I can learn to do it, anyone can. The trick is to find a set of procedures and stick with it rather then bouncing around hoping for the luck of the draw.

This site has a ton of great builders and great painters. Haven't met a single member who wasn't glad to help when asked.

joel

Joel,

Funny you mentioned finding a technique and sticking with it. You hit the nail on the head, that's exactly what I've not been doing. That said, I've been trying to find a solution that works using acrylics. Not that I've switched back to lacquers and/or the relatively newer 2-3 part clears, I expect that to change once I have more experience.

Thanks!

Greg

[joelw]

Greg,
Just gotta love today's lacquers. I air brush Tamiya, Mr. Color for general colors. For specific color I'm a long time Gravity of Spain type of Guy. For clears I've been really leery about using 2K's as there's so many health risks associated with them, and I've got way more health issues where I certainly don't need another one.

joel

[greg]

Oct 11, 2024 11:27:46 GMT -5 joelw said:

Greg,
Just gotta love today's lacquers. I air brush Tamiya, Mr. Color for general colors. For specific color I'm a long time Gravity of Spain type of Guy. For clears I've been really leery about using 2K's as there's so many health risks associated with them, and I've got way more health issues where I certainly don't need another one.

joel

Good point. I've only tried the muti-part paints a couple of times. I have very good ventilation, but I too am beginning to wonder if it is worth the risk. Probably not.

I have a pack of MRP 4k clear that I bought a couple of years back. I see it's not available anymore. I wonder if mfgs might be discontinuing due to the risks? (I have no idea, that is just a question)

[joelw]

Greg,
Honestly I don't know as I've never heard of a 4K clearcoat.

joel

[greg]

Oct 11, 2024 19:03:32 GMT -5 joelw said:

Greg,
Honestly I don't know as I've never heard of a 4K clearcoat.

joel

I never figured out why they labeled it 4k to begin with.

[joelw]

UPDATE DECALING


        While I was waiting for my decals from Indy Cal, I prepared the two side cockpit body panels and the nose section by polishing them very lightly with 5,000, and then 8,000 wet emery paper. While you can see the paint pigment, the surface is really quite smooth, which is what you need for proper decaling. 

     I worked on the front suspension for several days until Mr. Mailman finally delivered my decals.  I've still got plenty to do on the suspension before it can be installed, but here's where I am now.




   My plan was to do the nose cone with the circle and white stripe that's one decal 1st.  Unfortunately I just couldn't cut it out from the sheet as Indy Cal decals are a single sheet. As I turned and cut the shaped changed as well due to my Retina disease.  What I was left with was basically useless.  so I needed to formulate a Plan B. I used one of the White Ebbro number circles which just needed rough cutting out as they are completely separate from the backing paper.  Since the nose cone actually was comprised of basically two compound curves, I used my coffee cup warmer which softens the decals like a hair dryer but doesn't dry them. The result was that it took almost no effort to get the decal to conform.  I used Micro Set under the decal, Micro Sol and Solvaset over the decal, and very gently rolled them with a Q tip when each solution was almost dry. I gave the nose a day to cure, then I cut two white stripes and applied them as I did the circle. Absolutely no issues. Here's the results. there's no shine as the Gravity Lacquer paints are Matt.  the numbers were applied the following day 



   the two side panels both received their White number circles and numbers.


  
  There's one issue that I ran into concerning the water pipe that runs along the left side of the exterior of the cockpit.  All the factory Lotus 49s had a white band and the covered portion of the number placed on the pipe. But you can see in the above picture that I left my blank because every picture of a actual Walker Lotus 49 had it that way. I believe that this is a restoration not the 1967 actual car.




joel

[greg]

Your ingenuity is inspiring, you don't seem to let anything so much as slow you down. I could use some of that.

Looking good. BTW, I'm about to decal over Gravity myself, thank you for the tip about using the 5,000 and 8,000 grit papers. Hope I have some!

And correcting myself from a few posts up, the MRP 2 part paints were not labeled 4K, They were 2K.

[joelw]

Greg,
2K makes way more sense, but I still rather not get involved with it.

The update doesn't have my hissy fit after I destroyed the one decal that that I didn't have a replacement for. But the end result turned out perfect and was way easier to do it as three separate parts.

Go easy with the wet sanding as less is more in this case, and you can always do more as a 2nd step. To much to soon and you'll be through the paint on raised edges for sure.

joel

[greg]

Fessing up to the hissy fit makes me feel better, Joel.

And thanks for the heads-up on the paper. This sanding/polishing is new territory, but I had already sanded right through some sharp edges on the rear wing (don't know proper term) a couple years ago.

[kyledehart5]

Excellent work pushing through the issue my friend. The nose looks just as it should. And I like how you’ve left the pipe on the side blank. Looks just right.

[joelw]

Oct 15, 2024 15:31:33 GMT -5 greg said:

Fessing up to the hissy fit makes me feel better, Joel.

And thanks for the heads-up on the paper. This sanding/polishing is new territory, but I had already sanded right through some sharp edges on the rear wing (don't know proper term) a couple years ago.

Greg,
  Just ask my wife, i usually have way more then just the run of the mill Hissy fit.  She always manages to ask me why I bother modeling as it seems that almost every week  brings another crisis , and a shall we say a rather colorful exchange with my invisible modeling friends in the room. 

  As for the rear wing, well just as with aircraft there's always the leading and trailing edges, and on the rear edge there's usually a peice of sheet metal sticking up  which is called a Gurney flap, which is named after Dan Gurney whose team invented it.  The beauty of the flap was that it added not only a little extra down force but could be changed for a larger one, smaller one, or none at all in a minute or two.
joel