What-if - Panzer III with Soviet 57 mm gun ZiS-4M

[S e r z h]

Hello everyone. A little experiment, I hope it will be interesting. I have to say - the final will not be fast. But I was impatient to see what it looks like.

The fact that work on the model of the SU-76i, repeatedly asking himself (in the available literature there is no answer) - why it was necessary to build a cabin and complex, a massive gun protection? Why not take a gun ready, and do not put it on the tower panzer 3 ... Minimal effort? I understand that if this was not done - that there were good reasons. I suppose that the tower panzer 3 is too thin and not strong for such a gun as the F-34. Also, its height is less than the tower T-34.

Not so long ago, I saw a photo of Bulgarian panzer 4 with a gun ZIS-3 ... and the work began)))
Do not pay attention to the gap - all held on tape)))
I do not even have a box on which the tower))) No problem glue,
but as long as there are other issues.
1. To compensate for the massive defense gun on the stern of the tower asks what that box, but not for luggage, and an armored, after a hard, for radio or reserve shells.
2. If there is a side door - you need top hatches. I think not - that it is necessary to leave that one.
3. Commanding dome. In the center, as before, there is no place for him. It is necessary to move it. And to make a semi-circular wall, as the Su-100

4. Do we need all these completions (commander's cupola and stern "bag") or leave a simple design, which was a priority in time of war?

[tobias5555]

Nice idea

[wbill76]

It's a neat 'what-if'! The main reason the Germans didn't up-gun the Pz III with 7.5cm guns and instead did it with the Pz IV was down to the limitations of the turret ring opening that was possible in the upper hull. That's why the Russians went with the SU-76i approach as well (and why the StuG III stayed in production throughout the war after gun-tank Pz III production ended in 1943). You can physically fit a 7.5cm gun to the chassis without overstressing it, you just can't do it in a rotating turret.

Still, this will be a fun one to see you bring to life!

[S e r z h]

Bill - Thank you for such a detailed reply.
Yes, as I suspected - he had good reason not to install the F-34 gun in a tower.

However - there was a good idea.
57 mm gun ZIS-4m. Due to the long barrel was a powerful weapon that can pierce thick armor.
For a while it was forgotten, oddly enough because of high power
(missile flying through the German tanks through, no time to detonate)
At the beginning of the war (41-42) was not worthy goals for this gun. In 1943 they came ...
Were the test development, but later the designers focused on the caliber of 85 mm.
Leave alone the dynamic characteristics and other details - do Panzer 3 with 57 mm gun. Topic title corrected.

Visual differences are minimal. The barrel of the gun in store - no problem.

[dierk]

Another interesting project. As always with your builds, got myself a front row seat.

[wbill76]

Very cool Serzh! Didn't know about the ZiS-4M. I can see where too much power would be a bad thing under certain circumstances!

[Deano]

Cool conversion coming together here !

[S e r z h]

Hello. Thank you for your kind comments!

I decided to go the more difficult way, equipping the tower commander cupola and stern niche for radio (it is in the queue).
"Naked" tower would look more true - but boring

[S e r z h]

Hello everyone!
The box at the stern was very long ...
I was hoping that in the morning that will change - but not )))
Let me remind you - in theory, it's not a thin box stuff crew - this is armoured box.



has to take a radical solution



to be continued...

[Leon]

Nice progress Serzh! Cupola and box look good.

[deafpanzer]

Sorry for being late! You definitely have my attention... I have to say I have learned a great deal from your posts. Thank you for doing this!

[S e r z h]

Leon, deafpanzer - thank you for your kind words 
I'm glad that I can share skills, and I'm glad to know that it will help other modelers.
Although ... think that nothing much I did not show

So. Glued roof. Plastic desired thickness I do not - it is glued together from two thin sheets (2 x 0.2).
After - tedious alignment edges...

[TRM]

Always great to follow along with your work Serzh!! Making some fine progress on this monster!!

[S e r z h]

Todd - Thank you! While I can not complain - the work goes easily.
An exceptionally fruitful day. did notch welds and glued the box into place.

[S e r z h]

Hello everyone!
Probably have to get rid of the commander's cupola.
As experience is priceless, and it looks interesting, but spoils the overall picture. On the roof closely.
And this despite the fact that there is no monitoring devices, and they are required.
Plus - the tower visually higher and more massive than it actually is.

[dierk]

Shame - I like the coupola. Still, as always, inspiring work! Thumbs Up!

[S e r z h]

Dierk - hello. Oh, tough decision)))
I also like, as a separate element of the design, it looks great. But my opinion, it spoils the overall look.
Very high design. Plus - a lot of work on the installation (not for me, but in the real world)
I do not think that the designers would have done so.
This tank, more tower, though fantastic, but I would like just as well stay within reason.

I'll look and think ...

[dierk]

I see your point. You could make the coupola less high by cutting it down, you'd lose the vision slits but I suppose the hatch would have been fitted with periscopes? Just an idea...

[S e r z h]

Standard periscope T-34 will be. On the left side. Right - I do not know, maybe the MC-4? Maybe nothing ...

[S e r z h]

Hello everyone. Sorry, all projects stopped. Some of the people close to me in the hospital or sick at home. All occupied urgent matters .... wrong weld or bad angle of the armor plate seem to be inconspicuous. no time. and the mood bad...

[dierk]

Sorry to hear that. Family and friends must come first - hope they feel better soon so your mood improves.

[Leon]

Sorry to hear the news Serzh! As Dierk said,family and friends come first.

[deafpanzer]

Sorry about this... like others said family and friends come first! We will be here when you return...