Dragon M48A3-Getting it right (Photos of 'Wild One 4'):

[Hinksy]

Hi guys,

It was my interest in the 'Nam conflict that first got me into the history of Modern Warfare (WWI to present day). I found that 1/35 German armour was the way to go and love building it BUT when I saw that Dragon was releasing this iconic 'Nam tank I had to have it!



Now, I didn't know about the pretty essential Mantlet cover and searchlight but having looked around on here and speaking to Alan at my group who is a member of a Vietnam SIG (special Interest Group) it seems that Legend have released the basic Mantlet cover and optional searchlight too(?). I definately want to build the box-art vehicle!

I'm really struggling to get it over here and was hoping that someone could shed some light on sourcing this item!

Friendship models in the UK are listed as the UK Legend stockists but have NO IDEA when they can expect to get this item in so I was wondering does anyone know where I can source this upgrade in the UK?

My other option is to send some Dollars to one of you guys to cover purchase price, postage to UK and a few beers for your time and have you buy it from Lucky Model for me. I also need to sort the correct long whippy antennae for her - any tips for the antennae?

I'm going to start this one as soon as my current wip is finished - I hope someone can help me out!

Many thanks,

Ben

[deafpanzer]

Holy smokes! I really want that kit. Damn it! Maybe for Christmas... I can not buy more kits at this moment. LOL Somebody ordered an aftermarket for this... I am trying to remember maybe Tobias? Did you see his thread?

Let me know if you need help... it will be my pleasure.

[Hinksy]

Aug 24, 2013 10:33:37 GMT -5 deafpanzer said:

Holy smokes! I really want that kit. Damn it! Maybe for Christmas... I can not buy more kits at this moment. LOL Somebody ordered an aftermarket for this... I am trying to remember maybe Tobias? Did you see his thread?

Let me know if you need help... it will be my pleasure.

pm sent!

[Tojo72]

I got the mantlet and searchlight for no more then $10.00 on eBay,but according to Tobias,it takes some surgery to get it to fit the Dragon kit,since it was originally for the Tamiya ki

[Hinksy]

Hi buddy,

I've found the Tamiya version too. I've heard it's a real PITA to sort it out to make it fit. I really want this build to be something 'special' and get it PERFECT!

I've found the kit I need on fleabay but so I'm going to ask a buddy to order it for me (I don't have a PP account).

My current wip (Dragon Pz.III M Wader) is still a couple of months off completion - I've been working from home today and have been busy so I'll be doing some serious work on it tomorrow and on Monday which is a UK Bank Holiday.

I won't be starting on this M48 for a while yet so I'm hoping to get everything together that I need during September/October. Basically the Legend kit for the Dragon M48, some 'Nam era stowage (Coke cans to set the time-period etc.) and some 'Nam era weaponry like M16's, thump guns and a pump 12 gauge plus packs and helmets.

I've sourced some wire mesh for the turret baskets, tracks will be the kit supplied DS jobbies so really it's just the Mantlet cover.


Cheers Tojo,

Ben

[Hinksy]

Sorted!

Got the cover and searchlight odered from Lucky.

I've never used them before as I wasn't keen on using non UK suppliers but Alan at my group uses them all the time and highly recommends them so - job done!

I'm still really stupefied that Dragon didn't put these items in with the kit! That Mantlet Cover was made for DS Styrene - what were they thinking? They show it on the box art too!

Luckily I've got the PE mesh for the turret basket so just the stowage to sort!

www.afv-news.com/2013/08/m48a3-mantlet-legend-lf1268/

This will be my next build once the Pz.III M is done so not long to wait now!

The next question is - colour?

I've got AK's OD Green Modulation Set but after looking at pictures of this thing in the 'Nam it looks like a flat, very Dark Green? I don't think OD would be right for this? Perhaps I'm wrong?





Any ideas?

Cheers lads,

Ben

[Tojo72]

Sounds good Ben,I will follow you as you will start yours before mine,should be a good one.

[wbill76]

Ben,

Marine Corps Green is not standard OD, that's correct, it's darker, almost a forest green. As for the 'right' shade to use, that's always a tough call as you know when dealing with 'green machines'!

[Hinksy]

Sept 5, 2013 20:08:26 GMT -5 wbill76 said:

Ben,

Marine Corps Green is not standard OD, that's correct, it's darker, almost a forest green. As for the 'right' shade to use, that's always a tough call as you know when dealing with 'green machines'!

Hey Brother Bill!

The tank I'm building is the box art 'Wild one 4' option with the tiger decals. Only one option is for 'USMC' vehicle so does that mean the rest are just 'Army AFV's?

Remember, this all new to me - I'm a German armour modeller and post war 'Green' AFV's are not something I'm clued up on!

I'll definately save the OD Modulation kit until I attempt to build my Comet or a Sherman.

Now I have my Mantlet/Searchlight ordered from Lucky I know this will be my next build - I'm ready to go, just need to sort stowage so I'll get the other Legend set ordered when I get this beast on the bench! In hindsight I should have ordered it yesterday - DOH!

I'm looking at my Tamiya colours and XF-61 Dark Green looks very good. I've got a 'Deep Green' but I think that's a little bright? Has anyone got a good recipe or will Dark Green be ok straight out the pot?

All help will be appreciated BIG TIME!

Thanks lads,

Ben

[wbill76]

Not an expert in the modern armor department either Ben, been a loooooong time since I built anything that wasn't WW2! I should've looked closer at the pics you posted as those are both US Army vehicles going by the stenciling but you can see that the OD on them is still darker than say WW2 OD. Paint formulations and requirements did change in the post-war world but what corresponds to a good match is not something I can easily answer as it's part of the eternal 'correct shade of OD' debate that never ends.

[Deleted]

Ben,

The best match I have found for that era is Tamiya XF 74 JGSDF OD. It was a darker richer OD than used in WWII. It is nearly a perfect match for "Marine Green" as well.

For the M 48, cut it with a bit of Tamiya Buff and weathering will get you right where you need to be.

G

[Hinksy]

Thanks lads - that's spot on!

Ben

[Deleted]

Good to know. Want to build mine as well. Need to pick up one of those Mantlet covers also.

[Hinksy]

Hi guys,

I've got a couple more bits to do with my current wip Pz.III tomorrow (days holiday). It's literally just painting up the Jack Block and adding some slop to the wheels then I'll be cracking the M48 open! I can't wait!

I'm STILL waiting on the Mantlet cover from Lucky - delivery ETA was Friday but hopefully it's just Customs holding things up.

Paint has been decided on - either Tamiya Dark Green or Vallejo Model Colour Brown Violet (70.887) which is recommended. I've just ordered a couple of pots and some Vietnam Earth pigment. I already have the Tamiya colour.

Anyway, this thread is about getting it right - I ordered a Squadron Signal book entitled "M48A3 in 'Nam in Action" and whilst looking through it today I came across an actual photo of the box art tank - the one I'm building, 'Wild One 4'

It seems it wasn't a full-on combat tank but was operated by the 919th Engineers. These guys did a lot of mine clearing and bridge building and the Patton was a big help as they'd probably be getting constant harrasment from Charlie.

The 919 even have their own website:
www.bragg.army.mil/units/20engbde/307engbn/Pages/919th.aspx

Here you go - the book:



'Wild One 4':



Another shot of the same vehicle:



So, it appears that WW4 had the standard .50cal and the wasn't one mounted on top of the MG Cupola which will save me having to sort one out! It's faitly clean and the only obvious damage is to the front of the two Fenders where the angled forward portion has been torn off each side.

If anyone can help in anyway I'd really appreciate it. The Legend stowage set is a bit expensive so I'm going to see what I can scrape together. I haven't got any 'modern' weapons i.e. a 12gauge, M16 or a blooper. If anyone has any spare rifles or US 'Nam era helmets I'd be happy to cover any costs.

Thanks for looking lads,

Have a great week!

Ben

[Deleted]

Good pics. I'd like to point some things out if I may.

That reddish dirt/dust/mud got on everything. One thing though, when it rained, IT RAINED. Think Forest Gump monsoon rain. That'd clean the tank right off as you see in the photos. Look how clean the turret and upper hull are compared to the underside of the front where the crew are sitting. The wheels and suspension are caked with grime also.

One detail would be to have red dust in the nooks and crannies on the horizontal upper surfaces. It would never seem to completely wash away.

G

[Hinksy]

Cheers G,

The book shows that red dust on just about everything. I ordered a pot of Mig Vietnam Dust Pigment yesterday so I'm well covered!

Thanks buddy,

Ben

[Deleted]

G

[deafpanzer]

Nice reference pictures for sure! Notice how dirty it was that you can barely see the teeth on the front hull.

[sturmbird]

Sept 5, 2013 20:08:26 GMT -5 wbill76 said:

Ben,

Marine Corps Green is not standard OD, that's correct, it's darker, almost a forest green. As for the 'right' shade to use, that's always a tough call as you know when dealing with 'green machines'!

an M48 that's been in the bush for a year or two will also have a very serious paint fade in it. The higher you go on the hull the lighter it gets. I've seen Marine 48's that were painted O.D. green if that matters much, but most were their own shade of green. Also remember that a 48 busting thru bamboo will have just about everything bent up. Mud guards will be serious bent up and often just torched off. Yet an M48 operating in garden spots like II-Corps and the rubber plantations will show even more serious wear and tare. Yet the paint job may not be quite as faded.
gary

[sturmbird]

Sept 7, 2013 13:14:54 GMT -5 wbill76 said:

Not an expert in the modern armor department either Ben, been a loooooong time since I built anything that wasn't WW2! I should've looked closer at the pics you posted as those are both US Army vehicles going by the stenciling but you can see that the OD on them is still darker than say WW2 OD. Paint formulations and requirements did change in the post-war world but what corresponds to a good match is not something I can easily answer as it's part of the eternal 'correct shade of OD' debate that never ends.

I don't think the Marines ever used a Mod. B M48. But could be wrong I guess.

Take a close look at the two pics and you will see a nearly new M48. Or one that saw very little combat. Now look at the lower photo, and we see the real deal. That track has seen some serious issues. No mud guards left! Headlight guards are probably bent all out of shape (bamboo). The track looks like it's at least struck one mine on the right side of the driver, and maybe a second one in the rear. I've seen fenders bent much worse, but this is the norm after about six months of hard combat. Mine damage looks like 82mm or 105 rounds with pressure devices. A 155 round would have ripped the tank up a lot worse and probably CBL'd it. An 8" round would have, and might have even flipped it. Rest gets far uglier (like 500lb. bombs)

After about a year the unit numbers and all that stuff would have been gone. They would have been repainted by hand 90% of the time on the lower part of the hull.
Fancey paint jobs never lasted long, as they stand out. Plus the next crew will not use that paint scheme over. If the tank was rebuilt (often) from hitting a mine or worse, the next users will completely change every number as they will feel that old tank was jinxed! Plus, I've seen them done in white, yellow, and even red! Just whatever color of paint you had at the time. It get's kinda spooky on the battlefield
gary

[Hinksy]

Hi Gary,

Interesting stuff my friend! Thanks for taking the time to post this very helpful information buddy.


Ben

[pantherf]

This looks like an interesting project! 

I'd build it JUST for the decal.  







Jeff

[sturmbird]

Sept 26, 2013 4:58:35 GMT -5 Hinksy said:

Hi Gary,

Interesting stuff my friend! Thanks for taking the time to post this very helpful information buddy.


Ben

keep in mind the Dragon kit is a Mod."B" tank. I know of no M48 mod. B's in I-Corps, unless they were with the 5th Mech. Infantry up by the DMZ. Also the time frame for an M48 in I-Corps is quite critical! Some units like the 1st Armored CAV turned in their M48's in the fall of 1968 for M551's. Marines kept theirs as well as the 5th Mech. Not sure about the 17th CAV, but would assume they kept theirs as well. Two years in a front line outfit like B Troop 1st/1st, the tank looked like it'd been dropped off a cliff!

I've heard that the 69th Armor used a lot of this model and maybe even the 11th Armored Cav (Black Horse). If so, then that's going to bring in some fabled units like the 3/4 CAV and some others. Look for Cambodian incursion photos. Especially those rolling thru the rubber plantations into Cambodia. I've seen a couple of photos of the 3/4 CAV using M48a2's as well as the more common M48a3's, so a mod. B might also me in that mix too.

I'm probably going to get a couple of the Dragon kits, but I'm also seriously waiting for the AFV kit as it's supposed to be a true M48a3. The older Monogram kit is a M48a2, and that's an option. Perhaps a kit bash?
gary

[Hinksy]

Cheers for that Gary,

I'm not too fussed about being that accurate on this occasion - I'm a German armour modeller through and through (well, 90%) but just had too have this 'Nam build in my cabinet.

I'll just be happy if my Mantlet cover and searchlight ever turn up - delivery eta was a week ago today (20th) and still no sign

Either way, I'm starting assembly this weekend!

Ben

[sturmbird]

I've got a lot of WWII kits to choose from in my stash, but over the last couple years I've taken a like to the WWII wheeled stuff.

What really interests me a lot these days is Korean War equipment. Not a lot to pick from, but still plenty. Have an on again/off again project to do a couple M26 Pershings, and maybe a T34-85. Plus an early M1 howitzer dug in (will be nothing like Redleg's). Vietnam stuff is closer to what I know about, and yet has it's limits. Here's what I'm working on:

* a three gun M102 howitzer battery out on a mountain top in I Corps (3rd / 82nd). Still need another howitzer, and some things associated with a jump battery. I wish I'd done this one in 1/72 scale!!

* Three 155mm M1a1 parapits. Each will be much different that the other two

* suddenly got the urge to build a gun truck! And I have all the pieces to build one

* A lone M101 105mm howitzer in a parapet.

* I have a started M48a3 (Tamiya) that I'd like to build as a dug in perimeter guard. Got all the Legend stuff for it finally, but just need to get back to work on it.

* lastly is my Sheridan project (s). This one looked easy, but has turned into quite a project. At times I want to throw it across the room and quit, and other times it's a love affair

Now somebody is going to market an M37 truck very soon, and have another dio that I started and need that M37 truck! It's a bunker placed on top a railroad track near a blown bridge. And lest I forget; the M35 truck project. That one's been on the back burner for quite awhile, and need to get back to it. Maybe I'll finally get to cracking on it as the snow flies. It's a stolen MACV truck that looks like it's been dumped out of a C130!
gary