John Everett
Full Member
Member since: January 2012
July, 2016 MoM Winner
Posts: 1,278
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
|
Post by John Everett on Sept 28, 2015 11:41:02 GMT -5
Hello all, An influential model builder recently published an interesting article about the value of feedback and input. So I'm putting his ideas into practice here and am looking for genuine input about the progress of my Hover-car/Ma.K. style thingy. With these two vehicles I want to mimic the feel/mood of the Ma.K. machines, but with a lighter touch. More like airplanes, less like heavy tanks. Think, "More Tesla, less Volvo." Pictures as the vehicle stands just now: I'm planning an open style cab (no doors but with a hardtop roof), like the old Dodge 2.5 ton trucks or the British Bedford trucks.
Will be adding many hoses, tubes and assorted plumbing items. I want the "business end" to kind of resemble the engine of a modern car, lots of things, tightly packed, running every which way. Toothpicks to be replaced with suitable "struts", probably from landing gear. But I do want most of the engine detail to be easily visible. Eventually will need to work out how the roof/windshield will go together. The clear parts will probably prove to be the most difficult. At this point things are still easy to tear apart and rearrange. That wont be true over the next couple of weeks. If you like it or hate it, tell me why you like it or hate it. Does it need something? Should I remove something? Is it too much/too little with this or that? Is there something you like and would want to see accentuated as the build progresses? Is there something you hate which should not be allowed to see the light of day? Was my mother a hamster and did my father smell of elderberries? (You get the idea.) All comments welcome. Some comments ignored! Thanks in advance for your help! John
|
|
|
Post by kaytermarram on Sept 28, 2015 13:56:27 GMT -5
Hi John!
First of all, I love all concept stuff, be it models of technical stuff or figures. I think, you should follow your instincts of "design follows function" and decide, WHAT thing is it you want to build. Is it a warmachine, something like a private car from a citizen, a transport vehicle? I would suggest, let the MaK stuff outside and concentrate on something more scify! Like something Syd Mead would design, stylish outside but highly detailed inside. Make it smooth from the form, not detail overladden there, with a "colourfull" Paintjob, reds, blues, yellowish tones, white signs etc. (you know what I mean). Maybe some forward antenna stuff (but short, not too long) and, for the windshield, I think, you should vacform over a wooden master or do some sort of cabrio with only a windshield. But INSIDE you can go wild with detailing! The engine area could be detailed like hell and the cockpit could have some looks like sportcars, leather seats, some bord computer, and extraordinaire Hi-end sound system. Keep the weathering down (remember, how YOU would tackle such a machine!), only a minimum of dirt and grim should be done. And no armament of cause, gatling guns and hellfires are not the way to go, in my opinion.
Thats the way I would handle a project like this!
Cheers, Frank
|
|
John Everett
Full Member
Member since: January 2012
July, 2016 MoM Winner
Posts: 1,278
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
|
Post by John Everett on Sept 28, 2015 15:16:09 GMT -5
Thanks for that, Frank.
Never heard the name Syd Mead. But his art is just the sort of thing which I needed. I had considered vacu-forming the glass, and may yet do so. But I haven't got the equipment and am not sure if it's worth the hassle if I can adapt existing clear castings.
|
|
John Everett
Full Member
Member since: January 2012
July, 2016 MoM Winner
Posts: 1,278
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
|
Post by John Everett on Sept 29, 2015 0:18:47 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Deano on Sept 29, 2015 0:31:19 GMT -5
I kinda like it better without the back cover on it the way it is . Maybe design a more sleek engine cover if that the way you want to go . Frank nailed it with sleek smooth exterior and highly detailed interior . Also would this vehicle go at speed or hover ?
|
|
|
Post by tigrazor on Sept 29, 2015 1:59:48 GMT -5
|
|
k1w1
Full Member
Member since: February 2015
Posts: 873
Feb 18, 2015 8:07:41 GMT -5
Feb 18, 2015 8:07:41 GMT -5
|
Post by k1w1 on Sept 29, 2015 6:26:35 GMT -5
I don't understand why the vehicles would both be sitting there with their engine covers up ? - other than to expose detail that you had created. I would go for adding as much detail to the " cockpit " as possible and have the engines covered which would save adding any detail there.
|
|
|
Post by kaytermarram on Sept 29, 2015 7:19:22 GMT -5
Steampunk is not the way to go here. It is pure SF. I can´t even understand the steampunk wave which is rolling at the moment. OK, it looks interesting if you do one or two projects with figures or vehicles, but somehow it is overdone for my personal taste (ok, I am no fan of this stuff, but if it looks good, ok...) Elegant lines of a SF vehicle cannot communicate with the steampunk style, the designs are completely incooperabable. And I think, it would not look good.
When you are going to tackle this Hovercar the Syd Mead design way you will do something which is underrepresented these days where most people do MaK stuff or Diesel Punk oriented projects. The stylish elegant hover or antigrav car designs are rare today. Tiking has done some fine stuff in this area here and hopefully, you will fullfill the needs.
Vacforming isn´t as difficult: All you need is a masterstamp, a toaster and some transparent polystyrol to form. Heat it over the toaster, press in over the stamp, do some cutting and all is done. But when you can convert a kit part, letz rock. This works too of cause!
Frank
|
|
moramarth
Full Member
Member since: March 2014
Posts: 455
Mar 17, 2014 7:45:01 GMT -5
Mar 17, 2014 7:45:01 GMT -5
|
Post by moramarth on Sept 29, 2015 12:47:05 GMT -5
We're not exactly talking Vacforming here, but an even older technique- I seem to recall it for forming ancient ship hulls in an article in Airfix Magazine back in the '60s. Basically, you need to make a fairly tough "Male" master, slightly undersize (by the thickness of the material you'll be forming) of the shape you want. Then you put it on a strong sheet of wood or the like, and trace round the base of the male shape. Cut this out to form the female mould. The trick is to get the surface of the male mould and the sides of the cut in the female mould very smooth. the gap between the bottom of the male element and the inside edge of the female mould should be the thickness of the finished item, the material being moulded will thin somewhat as it stretches. Attach some form of handle to the bottom of the male former. Attach a sheet of the (clear)(styrene) material to be formed *firmly* to the bottom of the female mould a good distance from the edge of the hole, IIRC, if you're using wood, you can use staples. Hold the bottom of the female mould over a source of radiant heat (such as a ring on the top of an electric cooker, or possibly blast it with a hair dryer) until the whole sheet of material becomes floppy, then plunge the male mold right through the female mould from the bottom (material) side. Be prepared for some unsatisfactory results until you master the technique - practice with cheap material such as that used for cake and salad flip-lid disposable food containers you get at "pick-and-mix" salad bars in supermarkets.
Cheers,
M
|
|
|
Post by tigrazor on Sept 29, 2015 14:37:15 GMT -5
Sorry, I didnt mean it has to be steampunkish at all. Just wanted to say that its a possibility. After all its his project, and his rules of course. Theres loads of possibilities to create.
|
|
John Everett
Full Member
Member since: January 2012
July, 2016 MoM Winner
Posts: 1,278
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
|
Post by John Everett on Sept 30, 2015 0:05:05 GMT -5
Hey! Wow! This is turning into an interesting topic with so many offering up ideas. I was worried nobody would care. I hadn't considered just heating up a sheet of framed plastic stretching it over a form. That may be the way to go if it comes down to it. There's loads of YouTube stuff on the process and variations on the process. I love the steampunk style when it's well executed. The polished brass and glossy hardwood is gorgeous. But my chief complaint about the genre is that most of their machinery wouldn't actually work. I want to build something which is at least plausible based on current movements in technology. I hadn't thought about ditching the engine cover. It's a good idea if I want to show off the "power packs". I also love the idea of super-detail and super-texture in the cab interior. It's a good enough argument that I'm pretty sure I'll move the model in that direction. Found a few things which I like enough that I'm sure I'll keep them. The "Hover Pads". When I think of something heavy which can glide effortlessly over long distances, it has a shape kind of like this.....
Turns out, cheap earbuds have a very similar shape!
Also getting the final idea on the profile of the vehicle. I'm sure I need to provide a windshield and roof for the driver. But I also need the viewer to be able to see the driver. It's important to the diorama's story.
Sale at Hobby Lobby! Got these for 50% off. (Sale lasts until closing Saturday.)
Flexible! I like!
There's still a number of rough spots to cover, fill, sand or polish. All of this while trying not to damage the parts already in place. Scatchbuilding is hard. Like it? Hate it? Tell me why.
|
|
moramarth
Full Member
Member since: March 2014
Posts: 455
Mar 17, 2014 7:45:01 GMT -5
Mar 17, 2014 7:45:01 GMT -5
|
Post by moramarth on Sept 30, 2015 0:05:17 GMT -5
One giving the other a jump start? Cheers, M
|
|
|
Post by tigrazor on Sept 30, 2015 1:36:29 GMT -5
Earplugs... Really a great idea!
|
|
steveh
Junior Member
Member since: February 2015
Posts: 75
Feb 12, 2015 1:32:06 GMT -5
Feb 12, 2015 1:32:06 GMT -5
|
Post by steveh on Sept 30, 2015 2:09:47 GMT -5
Love it John
I have a greater respect for my PC mouse, now I have seen what is inside it!
Internal detailing is endless and only limited by your imagination and the local jewelry shop sales!
As for aerodynamics, it is an open debate, think of the Borg cube!
You really do have a vivid imagination, and the ear "hover" buds, are a real find.
Great work John,
Steve H
|
|
|
Post by kaytermarram on Sept 30, 2015 4:12:37 GMT -5
M, exactly the way to go! Great post!!
The flexible tubing looks top notch! MAYBE try to shorten the used lines a bit. I think, they are a bit too wide. But thats a personal opinion! The earplugs are great! Guess, I have to make a stop at the store and look, what the ceapest of them look like.
And more: Do not try to make the form too "complicated". Maybe keeping it a bit clean and "simple" would look more interesting. All the prominent details should be inside.
And yap, discussion here is really great! John, I may remember, that you have done some kind of Mars Rover, with detailed interior. What about this project??
Frank
|
|
|
Post by wbill76 on Sept 30, 2015 11:20:37 GMT -5
You could always just go with a completely transparent top for the whole thing, engine compartment and all. Keeps the 'sleek' lines but still shows off the detail you've added. Of course, that would complicate things somewhat but could be a solution if you've got the right kind of 'bubble pack' plastic to work with for shaping/design.
|
|
moramarth
Full Member
Member since: March 2014
Posts: 455
Mar 17, 2014 7:45:01 GMT -5
Mar 17, 2014 7:45:01 GMT -5
|
Post by moramarth on Sept 30, 2015 12:07:46 GMT -5
Bill beat me to it, an engine cover that's (at least in part) transparent is the way to go. Rear visibility for the driver/pilot, too. Think of all those mid-engined sports cars with the power plant visible under the rear window (not to mention mustang1989's "Hemi Under Glass").
Cheers,
M
|
|
John Everett
Full Member
Member since: January 2012
July, 2016 MoM Winner
Posts: 1,278
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
|
Post by John Everett on Sept 30, 2015 13:23:53 GMT -5
I never, in a hundred years, would have thought of something like that. I love the idea. I hate the prospect of actually building it. What may work could be a compromise. I could build a cover with a wide open grill, so that everything was visible. It would be easier than attempting to graft clear parts to oddly shaped parts coming out of the spares box. There's a local club holding an auction tonight. One can usually purchase unwanted old car kits for about $2 each. I'm planning to pick up 3 or 4 for parts. ...John, I may remember, that you have done some kind of Mars Rover, with detailed interior. What about this project?? Mars Rover? Fully lighted interior? Two, 1/32 crewmen? Multiple custom resin molds and castings? White with blue trim? Nope.....Never heard of it! I did all that work back before I really figured out how to use and airbrush. I knew a lot less back then. The rover is still in a box. But it needs a lot of rework and rethink for the exterior surfaces. Three words: Omaha...2017...Maybe!
|
|
|
Post by kaytermarram on Sept 30, 2015 13:52:16 GMT -5
Cool! Keep the rover calm and safe, maybe take a look at Scott´s THE MARTIAN in cinema. I have read the book (the hell of a ride) and they use Rovers, too. And they look great! Maybe some inspiration for the outside detailing!
OK, my 2 cents for the fully visible part over the whole car. I think, would this be "realistic". Would they build something like that? It might look good, but I for myself would not go this way on this car. Don´t ask why, it is a matter of personal taste and my own design abilities. I am very curious what YOU will do!
Frank
|
|
|
Post by dupes on Sept 30, 2015 14:43:14 GMT -5
Not knowing what your idea of the finished look of this thing is it's hard to comment. I DO like the look with the mouse cover/hand rest part removed for sure. Makes it look less mouse-like, which is a good thing.
The issue I always have with kitbashing/scratchbuilding is when it's completely obvious what you're looking at as far as components. When I did Iron Modeler at Wonderfest last year, the successful teams were able to disguise the parts they used...the unsuccessful ones weren't. "Look, it's an F-4 fuselage on an M1A2 chassis" sort of a thing.
|
|
thenylongag
Full Member
Sept2013 MoM Winner
Member since: June 2012
Yes, we have 'NO' bananas
Posts: 304
Jun 7, 2012 11:20:57 GMT -5
Jun 7, 2012 11:20:57 GMT -5
|
Post by thenylongag on Sept 30, 2015 17:25:59 GMT -5
This, my friend is excellent.
You can see a function to everything you have done, the earbuds are fantastic.
You definately have the "EYE"
You can look, and you instictivly know when its right
Keep true to your vision
Gag
|
|
|
Post by Leon on Sept 30, 2015 17:50:01 GMT -5
Great idea with the ear buds John!
|
|
John Everett
Full Member
Member since: January 2012
July, 2016 MoM Winner
Posts: 1,278
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
|
Post by John Everett on Oct 1, 2015 3:24:56 GMT -5
Thanks to all for watching and taking time to post ideas. There was a club auction this evening and I bought a couple of car kits for the grand total of $6. These will provide the interior parts and perhaps even the window-roof combination I've been looking for. Added some things: You can look, and you instictivly know when its right Keep true to your vision Gag Thanks, N.G.! That means a lot coming from you especially. How's the hand?
|
|
John Everett
Full Member
Member since: January 2012
July, 2016 MoM Winner
Posts: 1,278
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
|
Post by John Everett on Oct 1, 2015 19:21:39 GMT -5
I'm calling the engine section done. I might add a couple more wires and maybe a placard ot two. But it's just bodywork and putty from here onward.
|
|
John Everett
Full Member
Member since: January 2012
July, 2016 MoM Winner
Posts: 1,278
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
|
Post by John Everett on Oct 2, 2015 14:22:14 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by wbill76 on Oct 3, 2015 12:30:58 GMT -5
Now the fun begins John, you've got a great start to the body work taking shape.
|
|
|
Post by deafpanzer on Oct 4, 2015 20:37:15 GMT -5
WOW! Catching up here... I love everything what you have done!
|
|
John Everett
Full Member
Member since: January 2012
July, 2016 MoM Winner
Posts: 1,278
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
Jan 17, 2012 0:53:48 GMT -5
|
Post by John Everett on Oct 9, 2015 1:34:57 GMT -5
It's been quiet. But lots of work has been going into other areas of the diorama. I've pretty well finalized the overall shape. And this one has given me some solid ideas for the second vehicle which should begin in the next couple of weeks. Family commitments over the next 10 days will keep me away from the heavy work. But I might be able to get some sculpting done on a driver figure. Some interior work slightly visible here.
Not sure yet how exactly I'm going to transition the door and side window posts.
|
|
S e r z h
Full Member
Member since: November 2014
RIP- December 2023
Posts: 650
Nov 30, 2014 16:08:40 GMT -5
Nov 30, 2014 16:08:40 GMT -5
|
Post by S e r z h on Oct 9, 2015 1:56:54 GMT -5
John - this super job! Glass cleaner will? And rear-view mirror? IMHO, the parts will add all the usual everyday life in this fantastic story
|
|
|
Post by Leon on Oct 9, 2015 5:01:45 GMT -5
This is looking really cool John!
|
|