1/25th scale Sdkfz 251 Stuka zu Fuss

[panzerjager2]

As the Panzer III is getting close to completion, I thought I would start the preliminaries on the next build.  I was all set to start a version of the Opel Maultier compliments of my friend Joel Smith, BUT....... the Stuka zu Fuss won out....

[Leon]

Looks like it's going to be great project PJ!😀

[Tobi]

Funny thing, last weekend I purchased a "D" version from Dragon at a bargain price!

[panzerjager2]

Thanks Leon, It gonna be a fun build..... I even toyed with the idea of having it in the launch mode, you know with "smoke and flame"...... But cooler heads prevailed..... 

Tobi my good man, as you know any the Ausf D offerings are very cool builds..... I toyed with the idea of a 1/25th Ausf D for this build..... but I am gonna wait and do it as the Engineer/sdkfz 251/07. Now even though it's still "in the works" as they say.....my plan is to mount the 3.7cm Pak 36/37 as well as the other Engineer equipment..... well that's the plan at least. We shall see how this beast goes.....After the Lynx, Marder II, Berge-Panther, Ferdinand and Panzer III, I might just build a 1/25th scale Out House and call it good LOL LOL LOL LOL 

[Tobi]

Cool!

If you need to know any dimensions of the launchers from my 1/35 kit during your build just PM me.
Or even better, I think I have some scale drawings in my Panzer Tracts books.

Have fun Whitney.

[moramarth]

Tobi my good man, as you know any the Ausf D offerings are very cool builds..... I toyed with the idea of a 1/25th Ausf D for this build..... but I am gonna wait and do it as the Engineer/sdkfz 251/07. Now even though it's still "in the works" as they say.....my plan is to mount the 3.7cm Pak 36/37 as well as the other Engineer equipment..... well that's the plan at least.

The Dragon 1/35th Ausf. C (6224) includes parts for both the engineer and PaK armed versions and I was tempted to do what you intend (this was a long time ago and it never happened...), but I seem to recall reading that such a combination was only seen on Ausf. A or B.  However, SdKfz 251/7 Ausf.C (and D?) were known to mount the Panzerbüchse 41.

Regards,

M

[panzerjager2]

Thanks Moramarth, The funny thing is I have seen actual wartime photos of the 251/07 with the 3.7cm, I guess truth is stranger than fiction.

Tobi, are any of those scale drawings able to be e-shared?

Many thanks 
PJ2

[Tobi]

Give me some time to look up what I have.

[deafpanzer]

COOL! I will be one of your big fans once again!

[moramarth]

Thanks Moramarth, The funny thing is I have seen actual wartime photos of the 251/07 with the 3.7cm, I guess truth is stranger than fiction.

I don't doubt it, there's a lot of info out there a non-specialist will never have seen, pretty much any possible combination of vehicle parts (and a few probably judged impossible) seem to have occurred.  I seem to recall when Dragon kit 6224 was issued the box-top art showed a SdKfz 251/07 Ausf. C with a 37mm PaK with the small shield, and a review said the combination was only seen on early Ausf. with riveted hulls.  I note that many expert scale modellers like to build a representation of a specific vehicle at a particular time, but I've always gone for a generic item, best described as "Unknown unit, F***-Knows-Where, Whenever...". 

Cheers,

M

[panzerjager2]

So, here is a "proof of concept" for the rocket box....... Doubtful that it will make the final cut......
Please note that the Tamiya version is not correct. Notice the size of the real-life rocket box versus an average soldat......

[Leon]

Nice concept on the rocket box PJ! Looks good.

[panzerjager2]

Thanks Leon.

So, to anyone who thinks they have a good grasp of the Stuka zu Fuss Rocket Boxes, my advice is.... rethink that. The boxes are a simple, but very complex design. I at first thought it was a "box within a box"... it's not. Now maybe I am just a "window licking ass-hat" BUT......... After my third stink'n prototype I think I finally got the design in hand. Please note that Tamiya offering is some piece of work. BUT it is a place to start, so for that I am grateful. I am also very thankful that this is the start of this project..... cause these boxes are gonna be both tedious and laborious.. And unfortunately NO I can't cast them from a master, oh that I could. Here is pic's of the 3rd prototype, which I am very happy with........ let me know what you think.

[captfue]

Looks like the start of another fantastic build, look forward to following.

[Tobi]

Mar 13, 2018 10:05:15 GMT -5 panzerjager2 said:

Tobi, are any of those scale drawings able to be e-shared?

Many thanks 
PJ2

Sorry, I have no scale drawing of the Wurfgeraet to offer!

I thought it might be in the Panzer Tracts issue #15-3, as it has a picture of it on the cover, but sadly I was wrong... 

[Tobi]

Oh, you already got the boxes on the way. If I recall correctly there must have been also a metal version instead of wood.
I just can't remember where I saw it.

[Tobi]

Mar 13, 2018 9:24:32 GMT -5 moramarth said:

Tobi my good man, as you know any the Ausf D offerings are very cool builds..... I toyed with the idea of a 1/25th Ausf D for this build..... but I am gonna wait and do it as the Engineer/sdkfz 251/07. Now even though it's still "in the works" as they say.....my plan is to mount the 3.7cm Pak 36/37 as well as the other Engineer equipment..... well that's the plan at least.

The Dragon 1/35th Ausf. C (6224) includes parts for both the engineer and PaK armed versions and I was tempted to do what you intend (this was a long time ago and it never happened...), but I seem to recall reading that such a combination was only seen on Ausf. A or B.  However, SdKfz 251/7 Ausf.C (and D?) were known to mount the Panzerbüchse 41.

Regards,

M

Looking through said Panzer Tracts book I saw even Ausf. D with 3.7cm PaK and small gun shield.

[Leon]

Looks good from where I'm sitting PJ!

[panzerjager2]

Captfue, Tobi,  MANY THANKS.

Tobi, have no worries, "I can't complain about something I never had" right? Besides I have been surfing the inter-web and found many pictures.




OOPPPPPS wrong pictures from the inter-web LOL LOL LOL

Captfue, You sir are correct, there was a metal framed launch box... The Metal frame was for HE, and the Wooden frame was for Napalm.

[panzerjager2]

A "LiL" bit more on the boxes. I started a second box with the newer dimensions, and super detailing the 1st box:

[Tobi]

Thanks for the pictures Whitney. Some weapons there...

Only thing that makes me wonder is, I always thought the typical ordnance layout was 5 HE + 1 Napalm. That would mean mainly steel boxes but in contemporary pictures you don't get to see them a lot at all.

Was the ammunition type really the distinctive feature? *head scratching*

[wing_nut]

Nice rockets. Yours are great too.

[panzerjager2]

THANKS GENTLEMAN......

Tobi, here's the funny HA HA.... the rockets themselves are pretty similar, only major differences being, one is 32.cm and the other 28.cm.

As a postscript to my post this morning, I am going to try and do at least one Steel frame box for the HE rockets.... 

THANKS AGAIN

[moramarth]

Looking through said Panzer Tracts book I saw even Ausf. D with 3.7cm PaK and small gun shield.

I don't doubt it, I'm way out of date.  I was going to have a go at Dragon 6224 many years ago, but when I checked the reviews Terry Ashley's on the Perth Military Modelling Site warned "Just a brief note on the box top configuration of the 251/7 Pioneer vehicle with 3.7cm PaK fitted, the only photos I’ve seen of this vehicle show it on a rivetted hull and not the welded hull".  That and other reviews saying it was a kit that was easy to mess up (hull parts alignment) knocked the idea on the head.  I'd pretty much forgotten this until PJ2's remark "I toyed with the idea of a 1/25th Ausf D for this build... but I am gonna wait and do it as the Engineer/sdkfz 251/07... my plan is to mount the 3.7cm Pak 36/37 as well as the other Engineer equipment..." awoke unfortunate memories.  But now I've checked the PMMS review dates to 2004, whereas the relevant Panzer Tracts date to 2005 and 2006, so you will have information not available to that reviewer.

Regards,

M

[panzerjager2]

Well as a final thought to the 3.7cm on the Ausf D.... somewhere in my over flowing book collection there is a shot of two "D"'s from a Panzergrenadier Division circa 1944 both 251/07 Engineers, and the Company/Zug commanders vehicle clearly has the 3.7cm with short shield. Now it's HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that in 1944 the 3.7cm was mounted to take on IS-1's or IS-2's..... but more likely that the CO just wanted more firepower than a 7.92 MG-42.

[panzerjager2]

So, in my modeling "life" I have been accused by some of over-detailing some parts, while under-detailing others. (and bye the bye, when I say "accused" I should more accurately say challenged, or it has been proffered by some). Much like the ever famous debate over the Panzer III's barrel. Well here is a clear case for that argument...... 
The retaining latches for the rocket boxes "cap" so the rocket is secured during transport... it is a teeny tiny detail on either side of the box.

[thug626]

Count me in PJ2

[Tobi]

Mar 17, 2018 11:32:31 GMT -5 panzerjager2 said:

Well as a final thought to the 3.7cm on the Ausf D.... somewhere in my over flowing book collection there is a shot of two "D"'s from a Panzergrenadier Division circa 1944 both 251/07 Engineers, and the Company/Zug commanders vehicle clearly has the 3.7cm with short shield. Now it's HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that in 1944 the 3.7cm was mounted to take on IS-1's or IS-2's..... but more likely that the CO just wanted more firepower than a 7.92 MG-42.

Yep, also the smaller 250 with the 3.7 PaK was a typical platoon leader ride for some more supportive punch in an infantry attack.
Other than that these guns were already obsolete as early as '41.

[moramarth]

Well as a final thought to the 3.7cm on the Ausf D

Message received and understood.  It's your thread, PJ!

Now it's HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that in 1944 the 3.7cm was mounted to take on IS-1's or IS-2's

I wonder if the engineers were issued with the Stielgranate 41?  Although intended as an Anti-tank round, it might have been useful for other things the engineers might want to do (the warhead weight is similar to that of the MILAN missile which was very effective in "Bunker Busting"/trench clearance during the Falklands Conflict).

Regards,

M

[panzerjager2]

Tobi, you sir are correct as always..... What was the nickname for it.... "door knocker"  where's my friend Dierk to translate that for us LOL LOL

Moramarth, two things kind sir. First I wasn't trying to cut you off short, what I should have said was, "can we hold off on this discussion until I actually start that build". AND that by no means undermines the great spirited debate going back and forth about "what was, or could have been mounted on what". Second, as all those who study German military of the Second World War know, They loves to recycle everything..... I don't think they threw out anything. To the question of the Stielgranate 41, I have seen wartime pictures of it being used by Flak crews operating 3.7cm AA/flak guns in Berlin.... So, as we know, when it comes to the Wehrmacht ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.
Just last night while "surfing the inter-web" I found a wartime picture of a Hanomag Sdkfz 251/01Ausf B, with the rear compartment plated over, (just like the later Czech post-war version OT-10) and a turret mounted on it. Now the turret "looks" like something off a captured French tank. And the captions accompanying it says it was used for training purposes.  I NEVER thought they mounted anything heavier that the 2.cm in turrets on the Hanomag ..... just shows to go....

You can find this at "Tank Encyclopedia".