1/35 Mini Art Panzer IV Ausf. H

[mustang1989]

Man......that is rough on that barrel Dave. I can't get over all of the work that's going to have to be involved in straightening that thing out and can understand why it's so hard to stay within the OOB realm with this build. Those tracks are a frickin work of ART. 

Looking forward to the next update bud.

[hasenpfeffer]

Thanks for the commiseration fellas. LOL I broke down and purchased a Panzer Art AM barrel that comes with the housing (resin) and mantlet. I'll show the comparison in a future post soon. I'm in the process of fixing up the kit part, so we'll see how I did. What was I thinking? I know I can't build kits OOB. Oh well. Tracks and now a barrel. Add $40 to the kit price.

Hoping the PA barrel is worth it. Never had any of their stuff before.

[Tobi]

OUCH! That barrel hurts. Don't blame yourself, I'd have taken a similar route.

[hasenpfeffer]

We left off with my barrel woes... I received the new Panzer Art barrel a little bit ago. Here it is next to the kit part it will replace.
The actual dimensions are very similar, the PA barrel is maybe 1 mm longer overall. The main difference is the size of the muzzle brake.


The details are also softer on the PA part. Not a huge deal. I added the lifting ring and some "nubs" on the gun housing to make up for any missing detail.


I don't have much in the way of documentation of some of the bumps in the road getting to the following. Below is a perfect example of how the kit has awesome detail, but seems to ruin it by having crazy ejection marks in places that aren't so easy to fix. Not a big deal if you model it closed, but...


I also have to say that building the turret (6 separate parts) and the bin (7 separate parts) was a mega PITA. As difficult as it is to build a tub up from flat parts, this was a much more demanding exercise. Once you get things somewhat started it gets a bit easier. It would also have been helpful if it had Tamiya-like fit, but that isn't the case. They both turned out ok after some post build love via putty or sprue goo. The AM turret also needed a little engineering for the attachment surface. I unfortunately did not take any pics of this, but it involved flattening a small portion of evergreen tube and shimming it so that the round edge was even with the turret mounting. I did without adding many interior details as it will be mostly closed up. You may notice that the cupola vision blocks are not the greatest fit. And then again, maybe not. Also lost a turret lifting hook. Did the tweezer fling. At least it is one that is obscured by the bin.




So, let me know if you have any questions or criticisms, whatever. And thanks for looking.

[reserve]

Seems as tho it's giving you a fight, it seems you're winning also

[mustang1989]

Questions??!!! I don't think you left much out of this update Dave. For a kit that's putting up that big of a fight you are making this look all too easy pal.

[Tobi]

The only important question is, are you happy enough to build another one or would you go next time for a Tammy or a Dragon instead?
The muzzle brakes puzzle me. Can you tell which one is closer to the real thing in its dimensions? I've heard before that PA is taken away by fantasy from time to time, which got me a bit cautious about their products.

[losboz]

Nice progress Dave. I've never built a Miniart Pz IV and looking at your kit's mouldings that might stay that way! I’ve read a few SBS blogs on other Pz IV versions and the multipart turret always cropped up as awkward to construct.  The barrel is a howler and so replacing it along with the tracks is annoying! The RFM tracks and barrel are a massive improvement but as you say, it all adds up.

I don’t know how accessible T-Rex resin tracks are to find in the US and although they are just as expensive as a set of Friuls here in the UK they look fantastic and are heavy enough to produce all the sag required. There is no clean up, but you do have to insert the pins both sides. They are tapered and push in without issue. I’ve used two sets to date and both have been robust once built up.

[hasenpfeffer]

Mar 27, 2023 3:09:04 GMT -5 Tobi said:

The only important question is, are you happy enough to build another one or would you go next time for a Tammy or a Dragon instead?
The muzzle brakes puzzle me. Can you tell which one is closer to the real thing in its dimensions? I've heard before that PA is taken away by fantasy from time to time, which got me a bit cautious about their products.

You know, Tobi, that's a tough question. I'm the kind of guy that likes detail and a little challenge (most of the time - not always! LOL). My main problem, if you can call it that, is that this kit seems to want to be super detailed but doesn't really go or get all the way there. Like they provide tiny little PE brackets for spare tracks on the front of the hull but the tool brackets have molded lumps for the butterfly nuts. I ended up replacing those. So it is a little incoherent to me. The 2 biggest strikes against this kit so far are the aforementioned tracks and barrel. It's easy enough to sub in AM parts to rectify, but some modelers won't or don't have the means to do that. So they would have to live with the sub par moldings or cover it up somehow with weathering or whatever. But it limits what can be done and shown which is a bummer. Other sprues are great. And you can see that it's building up into a pretty nice looking tank in the end. I guess it would depend on your mood and skill level.  My next Panzer IV will be a Ausf G from RFM which was in the stash before this one. That will be a cool comparison. I haven't built a Tamiya Pz IV that has been updated so I don't have a proper point of reference. I've built several of the old Ausf D kits and an Ausf H back in the 80's which I still have in my paint mule bin. LOL. I was even placing the turret on this hull to see how it might look.

I suppose when you go AM it always opens the door for these types of things. The Panzer Art muzzle brake appears a touch large to me. It looks to be the correct shape/profile for this type though. Looking at photos the Mini Art one looks a little small. I would say the barrel profile of the PA part looks a touch stout too. It's really hard to tell before primer, etc. Either way, my options were somewhat limited for replacement and I'll live with the PA aftermarket. Here are a few photos for perspective. (worldwarphotos.info) Two of which are the subjects for this models build/marking options believe it or not.





Other side notes for the Panzer Art barrel:

1. It had a couple minor imperfections in the casting. Both were on the mantlet. Some gouging on the left side front and a bubble void on the left edge.
2. It took some care to get the barrel "straight" when fixing inside the housing.
3. Mounting to the turret itself presented some challenges. Some because the PA barrel has to fit several different brands, so is generic. Not their fault by any means. And some because the kit mating part didn't appear to be on plane at the join area. I don't know if it was MA design, if I over sanded that area, or what. The kit part seems to mate there fine.

[hasenpfeffer]

Mar 27, 2023 5:13:47 GMT -5 losboz said:

Nice progress Dave. I've never built a Miniart Pz IV and looking at your kit's mouldings that might stay that way! I’ve read a few SBS blogs on other Pz IV versions and the multipart turret always cropped up as awkward to construct.  The barrel is a howler and so replacing it along with the tracks is annoying! The RFM tracks and barrel are a massive improvement but as you say, it all adds up.

I don’t know how accessible T-Rex resin tracks are to find in the US and although they are just as expensive as a set of Friuls here in the UK they look fantastic and are heavy enough to produce all the sag required. There is no clean up, but you do have to insert the pins both sides. They are tapered and push in without issue. I’ve used two sets to date and both have been robust once built up.

Thanks, Los. I have watched Panzermeister36's review on 3D printed tracks. I was interested mostly because I had a little experience with the RFM plastic ones (like here) and wanted to know if it was worth 2x the cost to go 3D printed. My personal opinion is that it is not. These RFM tracks are awesome. I did want to check out the PanzerWerk brand however. They seemed pretty good and were not $40ish. I'm sure it would come down to what tracks you need too.

As a side note, (at the time) I was wondering if I should get some T-rex Studios lifting hooks after my tweezer mishap! LOL - Might still!

[Tobi]

Thank you for taking the time with an detailed answer, Dave.
One can read a lot written on the net about different kits and brands, but all too often it's just praises from looking into the box, but not too sound because of lack of assembly.
So a report like yours is much more worth reading, and I did enjoy to learn about your opinion. Nice pictures, btw.

[robbo]

Well this is a nice tidy build

[`Boots`]

Thats a fabulous clean/tidy build there fella........me and `MiniAaaaargh` kits just don`t get on!! but you have certainly shown whose boss here......great work and look forward to paint.

[chromdome35]

Nice post, love the historical pictures.

[Mence]

No criticisms from me, looking very good indeed.

[Whiterook]

Awesome work on this!!

[DennisM]

This thread right here is why forums are so much better than Facebook. Reference photos showing what the plan is and why mods were made. Detailed construction photos and descriptions that you can follow over the probably months long process. Basically turns into a build log and review of the kit.

Facebook just shows finished pics with no construction for likes. Can't even be sure if the person posting actually built the model themselves as there is no history and many times that is their first and only post.

So happy the forum is back and awesome work on this kit/thread. Can't wait for more!

[mustang1989]

Mar 28, 2023 7:31:01 GMT -5 DennisM said:

This thread right here is why forums are so much better than Facebook. Reference photos showing what the plan is and why mods were made. Detailed construction photos and descriptions that you can follow over the probably months long process. Basically turns into a build log and review of the kit.

Facebook just shows finished pics with no construction for likes. Can't even be sure if the person posting actually built the model themselves as there is no history and many times that is their first and only post.

So happy the forum is back and awesome work on this kit/thread. Can't wait for more!

I've never had a Facebook account but my wife does. For a while I was looking at getting an account so I looked at hers and looked at the spaghetti messes of conversations and how easy it was to get lost in the original point/ topic in the chain of conversation as well as seeing all the haters and just stoopid comments along the way. After seeing that and hearing everyone else's stories about it I took a pass on it. 

Every time I log in now I can't believe this is the same place and like you, I am thrilled that it's back up and running now.

[mustang1989]

That is indeed a good review on what you're encountering with this kit Dave and it does help the next guy that wants to build this out to overcome the difficulties and shortcomings ahead of time. It also goes to show some of the inconsistencies in model manufacturing in regard to what details are brought to the surface and those which are either not or completely wrong or misrepresented.

[chromdome35]

Mar 28, 2023 7:31:01 GMT -5 DennisM said:

This thread right here is why forums are so much better than Facebook. Reference photos showing what the plan is and why mods were made. Detailed construction photos and descriptions that you can follow over the probably months long process. Basically turns into a build log and review of the kit.

Facebook just shows finished pics with no construction for likes. Can't even be sure if the person posting actually built the model themselves as there is no history and many times that is their first and only post.

So happy the forum is back and awesome work on this kit/thread. Can't wait for more!

AMEN!!! FB Groups leave much to be desired. There is no sense of community and you don't really get a chance to know the other modelers. The best thing about FB groups is that if you have a question, you'll usually get a lot of feedback.

[hasenpfeffer]

Mar 27, 2023 11:43:20 GMT -5 `Boots` said:

Thats a fabulous clean/tidy build there fella........me and `MiniAaaaargh` kits just don`t get on!! but you have certainly shown whose boss here......great work and look forward to paint.

LOL to MiniAaaaargh. I think it's been a pretty fair fight so far... I'm glad that I appear to be "winning" (as Charlie Sheen would say) at this point.

Don't get me wrong, there is still a lot to like about this kit. I think the shortcomings are more painful because of that. Again, maybe mine is end-of-run? IDK. This is literally the 1st MA kit I've ever tried. I would say that if you're a novice, perhaps try an easier kit first.

[hasenpfeffer]

Mar 28, 2023 7:31:01 GMT -5 DennisM said:

This thread right here is why forums are so much better than Facebook. Reference photos showing what the plan is and why mods were made. Detailed construction photos and descriptions that you can follow over the probably months long process. Basically turns into a build log and review of the kit.

Facebook just shows finished pics with no construction for likes. Can't even be sure if the person posting actually built the model themselves as there is no history and many times that is their first and only post.

So happy the forum is back and awesome work on this kit/thread. Can't wait for more!

Thanks Dennis. I totally agree. (Although I haven't been a FB user for some time now. Can't stand "Sweet Baby Rays" boy.)

[hasenpfeffer]

Mar 28, 2023 8:37:20 GMT -5 mustang1989 said:

That is indeed a good review on what you're encountering with this kit Dave and it does help the next guy that wants to build this out to overcome the difficulties and shortcomings ahead of time. It also goes to show some of the inconsistencies in model manufacturing in regard to what details are brought to the surface and those which are either not or completely wrong or misrepresented.

LOL - well, I'm trying! I feel like I forget a lot of sh$%^& when I'm posting. And I honestly can't say if it's just my kit's moldings or if it's representative of the typical MA kit.

But yeah, you'd think either a blueprint or measurement of a real part would be the starting point. Seems like it should just be math from there. (And I do realize many of the parts have complex shapes...)

[`Boots`]

Mar 29, 2023 17:18:34 GMT -5 hasenpfeffer said:

Mar 27, 2023 11:43:20 GMT -5 `Boots` said:

Thats a fabulous clean/tidy build there fella........me and `MiniAaaaargh` kits just don`t get on!! but you have certainly shown whose boss here......great work and look forward to paint.

LOL to MiniAaaaargh. I think it's been a pretty fair fight so far... I'm glad that I appear to be "winning" (as Charlie Sheen would say) at this point.

Don't get me wrong, there is still a lot to like about this kit. I think the shortcomings are more painful because of that. Again, maybe mine is end-of-run? IDK. This is literally the 1st MA kit I've ever tried. I would say that if you're a novice, perhaps try an easier kit first.

Yeah they arn`t for the faint hearted for sure bud........i love the range of kits that they do but each assembly is either made up of a zillion parts when one will do or they are very fragile, i only steer clear of them coz i have fingers like cows udders when it comes to dealing with weeny bits! .......i have a similar aversion to etch as well

[hasenpfeffer]

Mar 30, 2023 13:37:01 GMT -5 `Boots` said:

Mar 29, 2023 17:18:34 GMT -5 hasenpfeffer said:

LOL to MiniAaaaargh. I think it's been a pretty fair fight so far... I'm glad that I appear to be "winning" (as Charlie Sheen would say) at this point.

Don't get me wrong, there is still a lot to like about this kit. I think the shortcomings are more painful because of that. Again, maybe mine is end-of-run? IDK. This is literally the 1st MA kit I've ever tried. I would say that if you're a novice, perhaps try an easier kit first.

Yeah they arn`t for the faint hearted for sure bud........i love the range of kits that they do but each assembly is either made up of a zillion parts when one will do or they are very fragile, i only steer clear of them coz i have fingers like cows udders when it comes to dealing with weeny bits! .......i have a similar aversion to etch as well

I actually meant the comment to be a general one. I was not implying that you were a novice.

[hasenpfeffer]

So, a general question to those that have built a Pz IV with schurzen... have you built it completely and then painted, or left the side skirts for the turret off until you have the base coats on? I'm torn, but I am feeling that if I attach the turret skirts now I won't be able to paint it properly. Your thoughts?

[DennisM]

Apr 2, 2023 9:44:19 GMT -5 hasenpfeffer said:

So, a general question to those that have built a Pz IV with schurzen... have you built it completely and then painted, or left the side skirts for the turret off until you have the base coats on? I'm torn, but I am feeling that if I attach the turret skirts now I won't be able to paint it properly. Your thoughts?

I am working on a Pz III and glued the turret shurtzen on. It was so hard to paint both base coat and especially camo that I had to pry them off, paint and glue them back on. It was a huge pain. I would recommend leaving them off.

[reserve]

It can be done with them on, I have done this but won't do it again. It also makes it hard to weather with the plates in the way, so I'm in agreement with Dennis, leave 'em off

[hasenpfeffer]

Thanks Mark and Dennis. I had pretty much decided on this course of action but you guys cemented it for me. No pun intended.

I am also calling the main building portion finished. I spent the last hours at the bench finishing up little stuff. You won't see a whole lot different in the following pics. I have the turret skirts all ready to go after I get the paint on. I suppose that's what's next. (Which also means it makes #4 in that stage concurrently.)

With all of the challenges it presented, in the end it looks pretty fricken sweet. It sure would have been nice to have viable tracks and barrel, but swapping those out is something I do a lot of the time anyway.

A few of the side schurzen just to see how it looks. Also had to add an Aber antenna as the kit part was broken. I had it in the stash or I would have just stretched some sprue.





Now I have to decide on a paint scheme...

[`Boots`]

Now she is looking real purdy indeed