1:35 RFM Jagdpanther G2

[hasenpfeffer]

Ok, so I'm a sucker for road wheel punishment... I'm in for round 2. I still have a few Panther subjects occupying my stash. The Tamiya JP is one of the very first kits I ever built and painted. With a couple rattle cans and some stripes cut out of notebook paper. I haven't built one since - so it's time. I figured it would be pretty simple, you know, like that old Tamiya kit. A look in the box proves me wrong...


Some cool features though - comes with a few wheels that are separate from the rubber. (Included on the poly cap sprue.)


I also managed to get through the first few steps. The molding is pretty good. There is a lot of great detail. Some things I wish were a little better. The seam lines on the springs - where the mold halves join up - is not the greatest, but they will be well hidden, so not a huge deal.


There is a lot of great weld detail. Not totally recognizable from my inferior photography - but it's there. you just have to be sure to get it "attached" to the mating surface so it isn't floating.


The torsion bars won't be seen, so I didn't take a ton of time to try to make them look perfect. But it took a bit of fiddling around to get some of them fit correctly. Half fit great and the other half had to be sanded and sanded shorter so the bars weren't "bent". Some mays till be slightly, but it turned out pretty well. Like I said I'm not too worried about the appearance so long as it doesn't jack up the suspension arm installation and alignment. I can't say if it was my build up of the tub, or what that caused my frustration. The way it all attaches is pretty good though. The location of these torsion arms could be a little better. You have to take care that the holes align properly for the next steps.


Anyway, there ya go. Another one on the production line. Let me know what ya think. And thanks for looking.

[Tojo72]

Didn't remember that you were doing two,cool!!

[armornutii]

   Don't feel bad about those torsion bars, my Takom kit has them as well...need to be an octopus to put them in, and they will never be seen again.

[406 Silverado]

I'll be in on this one for sure. Yeesh! Those torsion bars gimme the "hee bee gee bees" not only in scale but in remembering how hard it was to extract the 1:1 scale ones out of the hull of an M88. I remember the late nights..........

[M1Carbine]

Here kitty, kitty.

RFM torsion bar hell...LOL. I feel ya, dealt with it on my current KV-1 build, albeit not as bad as yours. Tuned in for sure.

-Bob

[reserve]

Ain't had 'nuff yet, eh? I gotta try an RFM one of these days myself

[deafpanzer]

Heck yeah!!! You can count me in too.

[Joe Rix]

Woohoo! I am going to thoroughly enjoy watching you build this Jagdpanther Dave. On occasion, I have almost pulled the trigger on this kit.

[hasenpfeffer]

Sept 22, 2023 20:38:31 GMT -5 Tojo72 said:

Didn't remember that you were doing two,cool!!

Not surprising, since it was a spur of the moment thing. I suppose I wasn't ready to dive fully back into finishing the Pz IV and Pz IIIs laying around.

Sept 23, 2023 18:42:21 GMT -5 armornutii said:

   Don't feel bad about those torsion bars, my Takom kit has them as well...need to be an octopus to put them in, and they will never be seen again.

True that! I wasn't too concerned with the appearance, but more so the alignment of the control arms. The locating feature (that can be removed for a "working" suspension) was very poorly engineered imho. They are way too small and weak given the force needed to insert the bar/arm to the proper position. It's easy to just smash the thing or shear it off which makes it useless. I took extra care this time on the alignment since my Panther D has a "floating" road wheel that I never addressed.

Sept 24, 2023 14:01:21 GMT -5 reserve said:

Ain't had 'nuff yet, eh? I gotta try an RFM one of these days myself

I've been pretty impressed with what I've seen so far, Mark. I still scratch my head that some things are so nicely detailed, but then others seem just half-assed.
So, check out the wonderful detail on the wheels/tires. (Left is the RFM Jagdpanther, right is the Meng Panther D kit I just finished.)

And then this - exhaust braces at the top of the rear plate where the seam is ridiculous and the bolt heads are just crap. Maybe they are supposed to be rivets? In an case, after sanding that seam line off, there isn't a lot of detail left. I don't need perfection, and I don't mind cleaning some stuff up. In fact, I go a little overboard sometimes given the part and where it is, but I don't like spending an hour on 2 brackets just so they'll fit in with the rest of the kit. And the exhaust is one of hose areas that people tend to look at...
(Left is my modified part, right is straight off the sprue with no cleanup.)

Sept 28, 2023 6:58:23 GMT -5 Joe Rix said:

Woohoo! I am going to thoroughly enjoy watching you build this Jagdpanther Dave. On occasion, I have almost pulled the trigger on this kit.

Glad to have you along, Joe. It sure has a lot more detailed than I thought it would...

[stikpusher]

Not that Meng is any slacker, but wow on the RFM kit's level of detail. Just wow!

[deafpanzer]

No kidding! That's why RFM is probably my favorite maker at this moment. I recently bought another RFM kit from a friend and its Pz III J but I don't have it til next club meeting. I hope it will be that good too.

I am so glad you posted a comparison of the wheels and parts between RFM and Meng. +1 for you!

[hasenpfeffer]

Sept 28, 2023 11:35:43 GMT -5 deafpanzer said:

No kidding! That's why RFM is probably my favorite maker at this moment. I recently bought another RFM kit from a friend and its Pz III J but I don't have it til next club meeting. I hope it will be that good too.

I am so glad you posted a comparison of the wheels and parts between RFM and Meng. +1 for you!

Well, the exhaust brackets are both from the RFM kit. Only the wheel picture is a comparo from the Meng kit. You'll like the III J. I have it built but not completely painted and weathered yet. It's in my Pz III duel build in the armor gallery. It's every bit on par with a Dragon Smart Kit. The tracks alone are worth the money as they are magnitudes above Magic Tracks.



I'll finish it someday. LOL

[hasenpfeffer]

Since I'm here I suppose I'll show where I'm at - even if it is a small update from last time. I finished up suspension. I had to play around with maybe 1/3 of them so they wouldn't bend when installed to the proper location. (See previous post re: location features being useless.) I removed all of the nubs, but glued the suspension in place as I don't have a need for it to have travel.




The jack is beautiful.


The current state of the rear plate. I amazed at how much stuff goes on here. I spent a lot of time on the exhaust braces and drilling out the clevis hook brackets and adding retaining pins.

For some reason the "block" where the wire cutter clamp is attached is missing. It was easy enough to add from evergreen stock. It has to be raised over that port cover like the bottom.
Anyway, a lot more to come.

[ogrejohn]

Nice progress and that jack does look very nice!

[buddho]

The detail is super cool. Looking forward to more. 😀

[hasenpfeffer]

I'm getting a little behind on my posts and I'm starting to forget some of the things I wanted to mention or ask... I'll attempt to get caught up here...
In building the rear hull plate they give the option between 2 types of storage bins. The classic "X" and these with the vertical ribs. Does anyone know anything about this type? I have not seen these before, nor can I find any representation on any Jagdpanther photos I've been able to dig up. The variation doesn't surprise me though. Pretty cool weld detail on either.


I went with the different version because I think they look a little more interesting. I don't have a specific vehicle I'm shooting for, so WTH?
Here's the rear plate, pretty well finished up. I did add the support for the inertia starter crank at the top that isn't shown in this photo. The part callout for the track tensioner tool bracket (PE) is incorrect in the instructions. I managed to get that one to look ok, but I just didn't want to deal with a similar part on the left side for the crank and just made one from evergreen sheet. Does anyone have any decent photos of these flame retarder muffler extensions? I have one ref that shows (in a drawing) what looks like screens over the openings, but I can't find any real photos. Most people seem to leave them "open". 

(wrong part here)


I finished up the suspension and road wheels. A very similar process to the Meng Ausf D build was followed to rough 'em up a bit. Nothing too exciting here.


I do have a question for those of you building RFM Panther G's, though. How was the fit for the rear idler wheel arm to the hull? (Part C17 to the hull as below)



As you can see, it just doesn't even come close in my kit to having any sort of positive location. The hole is ~10% bigger than the shaft. I glued it flat section to flat section and filled in the gap with UV glue to hold it in place after I lined everything up. Just wondering if that is a "thing" on these. I do have the G in my stash and it looks like it uses the exact same parts for this area, but I didn't go beyond a cursory looksie.


Anyway, that's where it stands. Look like I get to start on that big ol' 88 next! It's like the next 10 steps or so.

[Tobi]

Oct 5, 2023 12:44:57 GMT -5 hasenpfeffer said:

I'm getting a little behind on my posts and I'm starting to forget some of the things I wanted to mention or ask... I'll attempt to get caught up here...
In building the rear hull plate they give the option between 2 types of storage bins. The classic "X" and these with the vertical ribs. Does anyone know anything about this type? I have not seen these before, nor can I find any representation on any Jagdpanther photos I've been able to dig up. The variation doesn't surprise me though. Pretty cool weld detail on either.

Unfortunately I still don't have full access to my library due to move and renovation, so this comes just from memory:

The vertical ribbed stowage boxes were a specialty of the M.N.H. assembly plant exclusively, but since they did the Jagdpanther you are probably okay here. It seems as if that would have been an early MAN design that was found on some drawing for the Panther D. but never got implemented. As said, I'm simply lacking the possibility for confirmation through literature here so please bear with me and I must leave your other question about the Flammvernichter mesh unanswered.

However, according to Panther1944.de, which is the most comprehensive web page about Panthers and ran by a guy named Edi Eberl whom I used to know in past personally, M.N.H. did install the double cooling pipe on the left exhaust way into March '45, so your combination of boxes and Flammvernichter pipes appears only possible for a limited short time span.

[hasenpfeffer]

Oct 5, 2023 23:49:11 GMT -5 Tobi said:

Oct 5, 2023 12:44:57 GMT -5 hasenpfeffer said:

I'm getting a little behind on my posts and I'm starting to forget some of the things I wanted to mention or ask... I'll attempt to get caught up here...
In building the rear hull plate they give the option between 2 types of storage bins. The classic "X" and these with the vertical ribs. Does anyone know anything about this type? I have not seen these before, nor can I find any representation on any Jagdpanther photos I've been able to dig up. The variation doesn't surprise me though. Pretty cool weld detail on either.

Unfortunately I still don't have full access to my library due to move and renovation, so this comes just from memory:

The vertical ribbed stowage boxes were a specialty of the M.N.H. assembly plant exclusively, but since they did the Jagdpanther you are probably okay here. It seems as if that would have been an early MAN design that was found on some drawing for the Panther D. but never got implemented. As said, I'm simply lacking the possibility for confirmation through literature here so please bear with me and I must leave your other question about the Flammvernichter mesh unanswered.

However, according to Panther1944.de, which is the most comprehensive web page about Panthers and ran by a guy named Edi Eberl whom I used to know in past personally, M.N.H. did install the double cooling pipe on the left exhaust way into March '45, so your combination of boxes and Flammvernichter pipes appears only possible for a limited short time span.

Thanks, Tobi. That's some great info. IF it comes into question, this crew salvaged some stowage boxes from somewhere to replace their damaged ones.
Going now to check out that website.

[Tobi]

Oct 6, 2023 9:19:14 GMT -5 hasenpfeffer said:

Oct 5, 2023 23:49:11 GMT -5 Tobi said:

Unfortunately I still don't have full access to my library due to move and renovation, so this comes just from memory:

The vertical ribbed stowage boxes were a specialty of the M.N.H. assembly plant exclusively, but since they did the Jagdpanther you are probably okay here. It seems as if that would have been an early MAN design that was found on some drawing for the Panther D. but never got implemented. As said, I'm simply lacking the possibility for confirmation through literature here so please bear with me and I must leave your other question about the Flammvernichter mesh unanswered.

However, according to Panther1944.de, which is the most comprehensive web page about Panthers and ran by a guy named Edi Eberl whom I used to know in past personally, M.N.H. did install the double cooling pipe on the left exhaust way into March '45, so your combination of boxes and Flammvernichter pipes appears only possible for a limited short time span.

Thanks, Tobi. That's some great info. IF it comes into question, this crew salvaged some stowage boxes from somewhere to replace their damaged ones.
Going now to check out that website.

Elegant. Would that not also add lot of interest to the model if the boxes were painted in a somewhat different camo pattern?

[chromdome35]

Oct 5, 2023 23:49:11 GMT -5 Tobi said:

Oct 5, 2023 12:44:57 GMT -5 hasenpfeffer said:

I'm getting a little behind on my posts and I'm starting to forget some of the things I wanted to mention or ask... I'll attempt to get caught up here...
In building the rear hull plate they give the option between 2 types of storage bins. The classic "X" and these with the vertical ribs. Does anyone know anything about this type? I have not seen these before, nor can I find any representation on any Jagdpanther photos I've been able to dig up. The variation doesn't surprise me though. Pretty cool weld detail on either.

Unfortunately I still don't have full access to my library due to move and renovation, so this comes just from memory:

The vertical ribbed stowage boxes were a specialty of the M.N.H. assembly plant exclusively, but since they did the Jagdpanther you are probably okay here. It seems as if that would have been an early MAN design that was found on some drawing for the Panther D. but never got implemented. As said, I'm simply lacking the possibility for confirmation through literature here so please bear with me and I must leave your other question about the Flammvernichter mesh unanswered.

However, according to Panther1944.de, which is the most comprehensive web page about Panthers and ran by a guy named Edi Eberl whom I used to know in past personally, M.N.H. did install the double cooling pipe on the left exhaust way into March '45, so your combination of boxes and Flammvernichter pipes appears only possible for a limited short time span.

Tobi, you ARE a walking library, no need for a shelf-based library as long as we have you around.

[deafpanzer]

No kidding about Tobi and I am so glad he is still with us!!!

Dave, I am glad you chose the ribbed bins because I would have done the same. LOL Looking real good so far!

[hasenpfeffer]

So, the last couple of weeks have garnered a rollercoaster of emotions regarding this kit. My wife asked on more than one occasion who I was talking to down there (basement where I do all my work). LOL. I came very close to relegating this build to the trash or scrap bins. I was getting to the point where I just didn't care anymore. Maybe it was just a bad mood? But yes, the kit did have something to do with that. So, let's examine that closer, shall we?

I went into building the main gun with a pretty positive attitude. What's not to like about a big, powerful 88? I'm pretty sure my kit shares the same parts as the full interior kit as the gun itself is very detailed. As I was cleaning up parts - including some very small ones - I allowed myself to do a less than satisfactory job on most compared to what I would normally do, just because it was gonna be all closed up and unseen. Still I wanted to do it justice in the beginning. As I got into it I found myself wondering how those that want to build a proper interior are faring with these tasks. So many seam lines and joins to clean up if you want it to look realistic. Then I began to wonder WTH (to be kind) is with this engineering and the order of operations? There are plenty of examples where a part just seemed to be separated into 2 just for the hell of it. My biggest pet-peeve with this kit has been the locating features. For parts that must be oriented a certain way there always is way too much slop. An example would be the hydraulic tubes for the recoil of the gun. It would get you close, but you could still rotate the part +/- 5 degrees or so. This happens everywhere. So any small errors will compound as you build it up.

Example of a situation where I was left wondering, why? They separate out the corner of the gun mount to the super structure for some reason. I can't figure it out... Maybe you know why?


They have you put small, delicate parts on before larger build operations. I broke off several of these because the fit of everything is just okay. You are constantly manipulating parts in your hands to get things to seat correctly. So maybe wait until the very end to put those delicate PE parts on. After I broke them off a couple times I just left them off. Again, only we will know.

Three smaller subassemblies create the overall gun. You can see the seams and ejection pin marks that those that want to have a proper looking interior are going to have to deal with.


There were incorrect part numbers and even one that was not called out and required an extensive search of the suspected sprues. None of this is a huge deal, but all of it added up to a pretty unpleasant experience overall. Even if it did come out fine in the end.

The final gun assembly (minus a few parts that I broke off). I replaced the hydraulic pistons with brass rod since the kit parts looked like an afterthought. Not sure why I did this, maybe just the principle of it. Maybe they switched the elevation and traverse wheels? I can't see how this one would operate as it looks like it will interfere with the gun support.


And then... yes! My awesome barrel luck has continued into a 3rd kit! I am refusing to buy an AM barrel for this one, but I'll let you know that due to the barrel length, the bend is noticeable. Maybe there is a conspiracy between the kit and AM manufacturers? LOL


The other thing that seems wonky to me is that the entire gun assembly is supported by that one pin with a poly cap on it (see part above). I hope to God that this thing doesn't come unseated after it's all buttoned up. There is no fixing that.

Kinda where things stand at the moment. At least what I have a pic for. I'm a bit further. I've obviously decided to forge ahead. At least for now... LOL


Final note: The kit tracks are pretty good. You have to clean up the sprue gates and some ejection pin marks. I'm a little spoiled now from the Panzerwerk Design ones I used on the Panther. This run of 22 links took me as long as both full runs of the AM links. Just to give you an idea.

Feel free, as always, to leave comments or questions. I'm sure I left a lot out when posting this.

[chromdome35]

Thank you for the great update, sorry you are having issues with the kit, but I'm glad you are sharing the challenges with us. I have a high opinion of RFM kits based on what I've read on the net; however, your experience also solidifies my view of their kits being overly complicated.

[Tobi]

Makes you wonder did they rush out the kit, are there different design teams, why all of this?
Your suspicion about AM is not far from truth. A CEO even half-seriously admitted to me once in Nuremberg toy fair that there has to be room for the AM makers in a kit.

[adt70hk]

All I can say is well done for persevering, despite all the problems.

Andrew

[hasenpfeffer]

A little more progress... Worked on the rear deck and rear upper hull.
A few notes:

• There is a surprising amount of PE in this kit - a lot of which there is no plastic alternative. Sucks if you hate PE or just don't feel like bending that specific part. I spent a lot of time bending and then soldering tiny little joints so that hopefully they'll stay in the shape I made them a little better.
• The instructions are just busy and confusing enough that I have already glued pieces in the wrong place a couple times. Orientation sometimes takes several dry fit attempts as it isn't clear or too small. As mentioned a few posts ago, some part numbers have been wrong (a few) or are missing (only 1 so far).
• They want you to save the marriage of the upper/lower hull and rear plate until the very end. I'm hoping that it isn't that difficult or doesn't require a ton of manipulation to get things set right. I might be breaking some more stuff off again.

Looking a little more Jagd-like.



All that PE and detail and then they throw in that generic chunky fire extinguisher. (They even tease you in the instruction to apply some great decals - which are not included. I suppose the full interior kit gets them.) I added my first parts that were not in the box - a few tool clamps. The kit molded on ones weren't too terrible, but why not.



If you're paying attention and/or super JP savvy you may notice that I've glued the tube that is used as a tow cable retention point in the wrong position... I fixed it later on when I was wondering why it was blocking the spare track rack. LOL



There's still a lot to do. That roof has like 3 full instructions just for it. Who knew how much crap was on that? It's just a flat piece 'o' steel. LOL

Should have more soon.

[406 Silverado]

Oct 12, 2023 12:43:11 GMT -5 hasenpfeffer said:

So, the last couple of weeks have garnered a rollercoaster of emotions regarding this kit. My wife asked on more than one occasion who I was talking to down there (basement where I do all my work). LOL. I came very close to relegating this build to the trash or scrap bins. I was getting to the point where I just didn't care anymore. Maybe it was just a bad mood? But yes, the kit did have something to do with that. So, let's examine that closer, shall we?

I went into building the main gun with a pretty positive attitude. What's not to like about a big, powerful 88? I'm pretty sure my kit shares the same parts as the full interior kit as the gun itself is very detailed. As I was cleaning up parts - including some very small ones - I allowed myself to do a less than satisfactory job on most compared to what I would normally do, just because it was gonna be all closed up and unseen. Still I wanted to do it justice in the beginning. As I got into it I found myself wondering how those that want to build a proper interior are faring with these tasks. So many seam lines and joins to clean up if you want it to look realistic. Then I began to wonder WTH (to be kind) is with this engineering and the order of operations? There are plenty of examples where a part just seemed to be separated into 2 just for the hell of it. My biggest pet-peeve with this kit has been the locating features. For parts that must be oriented a certain way there always is way too much slop. An example would be the hydraulic tubes for the recoil of the gun. It would get you close, but you could still rotate the part +/- 5 degrees or so. This happens everywhere. So any small errors will compound as you build it up.

Example of a situation where I was left wondering, why? They separate out the corner of the gun mount to the super structure for some reason. I can't figure it out... Maybe you know why?


They have you put small, delicate parts on before larger build operations. I broke off several of these because the fit of everything is just okay. You are constantly manipulating parts in your hands to get things to seat correctly. So maybe wait until the very end to put those delicate PE parts on. After I broke them off a couple times I just left them off. Again, only we will know.

Three smaller subassemblies create the overall gun. You can see the seams and ejection pin marks that those that want to have a proper looking interior are going to have to deal with.


There were incorrect part numbers and even one that was not called out and required an extensive search of the suspected sprues. None of this is a huge deal, but all of it added up to a pretty unpleasant experience overall. Even if it did come out fine in the end.

The final gun assembly (minus a few parts that I broke off). I replaced the hydraulic pistons with brass rod since the kit parts looked like an afterthought. Not sure why I did this, maybe just the principle of it. Maybe they switched the elevation and traverse wheels? I can't see how this one would operate as it looks like it will interfere with the gun support.


And then... yes! My awesome barrel luck has continued into a 3rd kit! I am refusing to buy an AM barrel for this one, but I'll let you know that due to the barrel length, the bend is noticeable. Maybe there is a conspiracy between the kit and AM manufacturers? LOL


The other thing that seems wonky to me is that the entire gun assembly is supported by that one pin with a poly cap on it (see part above). I hope to God that this thing doesn't come unseated after it's all buttoned up. There is no fixing that.

Kinda where things stand at the moment. At least what I have a pic for. I'm a bit further. I've obviously decided to forge ahead. At least for now... LOL


Final note: The kit tracks are pretty good. You have to clean up the sprue gates and some ejection pin marks. I'm a little spoiled now from the Panzerwerk Design ones I used on the Panther. This run of 22 links took me as long as both full runs of the AM links. Just to give you an idea.

Feel free, as always, to leave comments or questions. I'm sure I left a lot out when posting this.

Jeez Dave!! Sounds like this one is giving you a run for your money dude. I haven't built an RFM tracked vehicle but I did build an RFM Type 82 VW Staff Car and have to say that there were injector pin marks in the weirdest of places. Good kit but had to do some fancy foot work with the marks and then the dang windshield which wouldn't go into place without a LOT of tweaking. And that was just on a little Beetle. I can't imagine your frustration level but I can appreciate the perseverance that you have with this kit. Hang with 'er bud......it's looking swell so far.

[Tojo72]

Worth the effort your putting in looks good so far.

[armornutii]

   I feel ya hasenpfeffer, my JP from Takom is similar...lots and lots of detail that disappears behind...yep more detail. 
    OMG some rivet counter is gonna stroke out about that tow hook LOL, well shitaki hapoens LOL.
      Thanks for hanging tough and inspiring me to keep plugging away on mine.

[reserve]

It took me 2 1/2 years to complete the last full interior kit I did...'cause when I got to where you sound like you are now I walked away from it 'till I felt like pulling it off the shelf again. Interior kits are a large undertaking, they require a different paradigm, and the knowledge most of the work will be invisible don't help.

What ya got here is great, if it vexes you overly put it on the shelf for awhile and sneer at it when you go by. Man over plastic!