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Post by 406 Silverado on Jul 14, 2024 14:03:27 GMT -5
Gang, We will allow this thread as long as it remains nonpolitical, meaning no "My side is better than your side" or commentary on the political stances of either party. The second there is even a hint of politics in this thread; we will delete it. Keep the commentary centered on the event and not politics.
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Post by tcoat on Jul 14, 2024 14:16:02 GMT -5
Presidents killed while in office - 4 Presidents injured in attempts - 3 Presidents with failed attempts/uncovered legitimate plots - 16 Total number of failed/plotted - 39 President with most attempts/plots - Obama at 8
My point being that the job has the risk no matter WHO it is and this is not a new or only a "Trump" thing but has a history going back as far as the country has existed.
Oh and separating politics from the conversation is pretty much impossible as the whole thing is driven by them.
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Post by Steve Zuleski on Jul 14, 2024 15:38:12 GMT -5
Oh and separating politics from the conversation is pretty much impossible as the whole thing is driven by them. And I'm glad you didn't mention it. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) Yep, that threat is always there no matter who they are.
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brandonk
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Post by brandonk on Jul 15, 2024 9:55:28 GMT -5
Post on FSM has been removed. How shocking of them.
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Post by Tojo72 on Jul 15, 2024 10:06:27 GMT -5
Post on FSM has been removed. How shocking of them. Kitmaker also,which was surprising considering the hate the allow in their Off Topic Shenanigans Forum
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Post by Medicman71 on Jul 15, 2024 12:51:47 GMT -5
One of the casualties was a retired firefighter.
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Post by creading on Jul 15, 2024 13:22:10 GMT -5
It's astounding to me that a building, outside the venue perimeter, yet in open line of site to the stage and podium and a little over a football field in length away didn't have a Secret Service person stationed on or near. Someone's head will/should roll for this obvious lack/botched planning.
C.
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Post by Steve Zuleski on Jul 15, 2024 19:43:50 GMT -5
Sad news for the victim, a totally avoidable situation if the job was done correctly. He was a retired Fire Chief I think, condolences to his family and to the other wounded.
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Post by stikpusher on Jul 15, 2024 21:14:03 GMT -5
It's astounding to me that a building, outside the venue perimeter, yet in open line of site to the stage and podium and a little over a football field in length away didn't have a Secret Service person stationed on or near. Someone's head will/should roll for this obvious lack/botched planning. C. Yes. A truly grand bit of incompetence or criminal negligence on the part of whoever was in charge of security for the event. The distance from the shooters position to the Trump’s location was an easy shot for any trained rifleman, even with iron sights only. The counter sniper team responded well enough, locating and neutralizing the shooter within seconds. But I’m not overly impressed but the team extracting Trump afterwards. He was far too exposed during that process and was again an easy target had there been a secondary shooter there to exploit the situation.
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Post by stikpusher on Jul 15, 2024 21:15:43 GMT -5
Post on FSM has been removed. How shocking of them. Kitmaker also,which was surprising considering the hate the allow in their Off Topic Shenanigans Forum Kitmaker restored it after I raised a ruckus on their TDS thread pointing out their hypocrisy.
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Post by Tojo72 on Jul 15, 2024 21:24:20 GMT -5
Kitmaker also,which was surprising considering the hate the allow in their Off Topic Shenanigans Forum Kitmaker restored it after I raised a ruckus on their TDS thread pointing out their hypocrisy. I saw that,nice
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Post by aaronw on Jul 16, 2024 1:44:24 GMT -5
Presidents killed while in office - 4 Presidents injured in attempts - 3 Presidents with failed attempts/uncovered legitimate plots - 16 Total number of failed/plotted - 39 President with most attempts/plots - Obama at 8 My point being that the job has the risk no matter WHO it is and this is not a new or only a "Trump" thing but has a history going back as far as the country has existed. Oh and separating politics from the conversation is pretty much impossible as the whole thing is driven by them. There are even more when you include presidential candidates. Surprisingly many of the assassinations and particularly the attempts have actually not been politically motivated. Some were based on perceived personal slights, and a large number have been mentally unstable individuals responding to delusional beliefs.
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Post by dodgy on Jul 17, 2024 20:29:45 GMT -5
I am really impressed by this site and all that have commented on this subject. Given the strength of emotion around the target person, the ability to be able to discuss the incident without degenerating into an emotive debate, shows a level of maturity and personal responsibility that many other sites lack. Well done all!
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Post by armornutii on Jul 18, 2024 7:36:08 GMT -5
I am really impressed by this site and all that have commented on this subject. Given the strength of emotion around the target person, the ability to be able to discuss the incident without degenerating into an emotive debate, shows a level of maturity and personal responsibility that many other sites lack. Well done all! I agree Dodgy, MODS give this man an award ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) . The tention in the U.S. is palateble, it is good that those who participated here can keep a level head.
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Post by adt70hk on Jul 18, 2024 12:28:21 GMT -5
I have to agree that the discussion has been very sensible and level headed.
Although I'm in the UK, i do keep abreast of international audits affairs, particularly the US, and so I am very aware of the 'tensions' (for want of a better phrase) within US politics.
As had already been said, REGARDLESS of what ANYONE'S personal beliefs are, assassinations (successful or otherwise) are to be abhorred and are an afront to democracy.
And then of course in this case, whilst the assassination attempt was fortunately unsuccessful, three innocent bystanders (and their friends and families) have suffered... In one case, paying the ultimate price.
ATB
Andrew
[Edit. Updated to better reflect what I was trying to say]
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Post by adrian29341 on Jul 18, 2024 14:52:38 GMT -5
No matter what your personal political beliefs are, violence will never bring about peace - it never has and it never will.
Violence only begets more violence, and that's why the world is a right mess at the moment.
Very well discussed here indeed, I'm impressed with the maturity level of this group given how heated and divisive this topic is.
I fear the worst is yet to come, I really do, so I pray for peace.
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Post by dean48ws on Jul 19, 2024 3:02:07 GMT -5
In modern society, I think it is safe to assume that society was past this kind of action. Unfortunately, it seems not. I'm at the point where, to me, neither side of politics is better, wiser, more economically capable or interested in anything other than reelection, than the other side. My main concern now days is the level of political correctness and the dumbing down of common sense so that the stupid and entitled aren't offended. Personally, the threat of Dad's belt around the bum stopped a whole lot more dumb stuff than any soft soaped exploration of my motives would have. I worry that we will lose our sense of humour because a third party may overhear a remark that was never intended for them to hear and I get held accountable. I find it somewhat ironic that the best Irish jokes are told by the Irish and the best aboriginal jokes are told by abos. The guy who told me the joke said he was an abo, always was and always will be, who am I to argue? The moderators here a doing a great job of keeping this neutral.
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Post by garybrantley on Jul 19, 2024 8:13:54 GMT -5
Personally, the threat of Dad's belt around the bum stopped a whole lot more dumb stuff than any soft soaped exploration of my motives would have. Hear, hear! 👍
Yes, it was the memory of the times when that threat wasn't enough for Dad, and the belt came off for real, that helped "moderate" my behavior back then. And it worked so well, too.
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Post by eaglecash867 on Jul 19, 2024 9:06:26 GMT -5
I find it somewhat ironic that the best Irish jokes are told by the Irish and the best aboriginal jokes are told by abos. As someone of Scottish and Irish descent, I definitely agree with that. One of my favorite, short Irish jokes: Two Irish guys walk out of a bar. What?! It could happen! Then there's the joke about McGregor the bridge builder, but I can't tell that one here. LOL. I think so much of the craziness comes from people taking themselves and everything WAY too seriously these days. We've gotta get back to laughing at ourselves again. ![chEAnY](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3885/chEAnY.gif)
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Post by tcoat on Jul 19, 2024 9:21:45 GMT -5
I find it somewhat ironic that the best Irish jokes are told by the Irish and the best aboriginal jokes are told by abos. As someone of Scottish and Irish descent, I definitely agree with that. One of my favorite, short Irish jokes: Two Irish guys walk out of a bar. What?! It could happen! Then there's the joke about McGregor the bridge builder, but I can't tell that one here. LOL. I think so much of the craziness comes from people taking themselves and everything WAY too seriously these days. We've gotta get back to laughing at ourselves again. ![chEAnY](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3885/chEAnY.gif) ![](https://live.staticflickr.com/7617/16665295738_80cdacff4c_b.jpg)
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Post by eaglecash867 on Jul 19, 2024 9:38:07 GMT -5
YES! That's part of the McGregor the bridge builder joke.
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Post by vw8243 on Jul 19, 2024 10:08:53 GMT -5
Two Irish guys walk out of a bar. What?! It could happen! Now that is the kinda false information on social media that leads to all kinds a trouble
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Post by tcoat on Jul 19, 2024 10:18:45 GMT -5
YES! That's part of the McGregor the bridge builder joke. What do you call a Scotsman with 200 girlfriends? A farmer
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Post by moparman18064 on Jul 19, 2024 12:13:57 GMT -5
YES! That's part of the McGregor the bridge builder joke. What do you call a Scotsman with 200 girlfriends? A farmer 🤣😂🤣
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Post by project510 on Jul 19, 2024 13:08:09 GMT -5
My first thought honestly, after seeing the headline was that it was fake or staged. After watching the video my 2nd thought was "wow, secret service dropped the ball today." Like everyone, its good to see a post not go nuclear and turn into something crazy. I think the reason for that is first, we got a good group here. Second, its just human compassion. Regardless of ideology or personal opinion shooting anyone because you don't agree with their way of life is just cowardly.
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Post by stikpusher on Jul 19, 2024 21:29:29 GMT -5
My first thought honestly, after seeing the headline was that it was fake or staged. After watching the video my 2nd thought was "wow, secret service dropped the ball today." Like everyone, its good to see a post not go nuclear and turn into something crazy. I think the reason for that is first, we got a good group here. Second, its just human compassion. Regardless of ideology or personal opinion shooting anyone because you don't agree with their way of life is just cowardly. No personal offense intended, but that mindset irks the bejeezus out of me for folks to think that this was staged. Two people, including the shooter are dead. Two more in the hospital, originally with critical life threatening wounds, now currently upgraded to stable. This incident has to be one of the most highly photographed and video recorded assassination attempts in history. Between the press and the proliferation of cell phone cameras out there, the ability to stage anything nowadays in such a setting is quite minimal. And I mean odds of in the same league as finding empirical proof of Bigfoot or the fate of Flight 19. For the intended target to have been wounded in such a trivial manner, when the slightest change of impact point would have been absolutely fatal if this had been staged is a concept ludicrous beyond belief. Not to mention requiring a shooter of such incredible skill and experience along with an expensive rifle matched to that shooter during all of that range time practicing for such a shot. As any US Army or US Marine rifleman trained on the AR-15/M-16 rifle can attest, a shot at the distance of this incident, should have been an easy kill. And only God knows what sort of chaos would have been unleashed if the bullet had found its mark.
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Post by project510 on Jul 19, 2024 22:59:55 GMT -5
My first thought honestly, after seeing the headline was that it was fake or staged. After watching the video my 2nd thought was "wow, secret service dropped the ball today." Like everyone, its good to see a post not go nuclear and turn into something crazy. I think the reason for that is first, we got a good group here. Second, its just human compassion. Regardless of ideology or personal opinion shooting anyone because you don't agree with their way of life is just cowardly. No personal offense intended, but that mindset irks the bejeezus out of me for folks to think that this was staged. Two people, including the shooter are dead. Two more in the hospital, originally with critical life threatening wounds, now currently upgraded to stable. This incident has to be one of the most highly photographed and video recorded assassination attempts in history. Between the press and the proliferation of cell phone cameras out there, the ability to stage anything nowadays in such a setting is quite minimal. And I mean odds of in the same league as finding empirical proof of Bigfoot or the fate of Flight 19. For the intended target to have been wounded in such a trivial manner, when the slightest change of impact point would have been absolutely fatal if this had been staged is a concept ludicrous beyond belief. Not to mention requiring a shooter of such incredible skill and experience along with an expensive rifle matched to that shooter during all of that range time practicing for such a shot. As any US Army or US Marine rifleman trained on the AR-15/M-16 rifle can attest, a shot at the distance of this incident, should have been an easy kill. And only God knows what sort of chaos would have been unleashed if the bullet had found its mark. Should have been more clear, I meant watching the video.. meaning the first few seconds. The gunshots didn't sound like real gunshots, he grabbed his ear, stood there long enough for me to think wait, is he joking? Where is secret service? Then he ducks. I by no means think it was some wacko political stunt. Sorry for the confusion.
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eaglecash867
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Post by eaglecash867 on Jul 20, 2024 5:00:07 GMT -5
Should have been more clear, I meant watching the video.. meaning the first few seconds. The gunshots didn't sound like real gunshots, he grabbed his ear, stood there long enough for me to think wait, is he joking? Where is secret service? Then he ducks. I by no means think it was some wacko political stunt. Sorry for the confusion. That's one of the common misconceptions going around about this incident. They sounded exactly like real gunshots would sound from that distance, and I would have been suspicious if he HAD immediately ducked, because that would have meant that he was expecting someone to be shooting. It wasn't until he saw the blood on his hand after reaching up to figure out "what the hell just hit my ear?!" and saw the attendees get hit that he realized what was happening and took cover. It happened fast, and if you're truly not expecting something so surreal to happen, it takes a few seconds to react to it. My brother, who was a Staff Sergeant with USMC 1/23 in Ramadi, Iraq in 2004 has echoed what Stik said about that distance being an easy kill and there would be no way in hell to guarantee the person on the receiving end that he would only have his ear grazed. I understand that you were just talking about your initial thoughts though...and that's what was happening with Trump...his reaction was very much a "What?!! No way this is happening right now!" reaction. The "staged" conspiracy theories have just gotten me spun up like Stik.
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armornutii
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Post by armornutii on Jul 20, 2024 6:35:19 GMT -5
I imagine if one has never been in a combat situation, or spend hours on a range that their first impression would be WTF...then the reality of the situation sets in and reactions take over. No gunshot wound should ever be thought of as minor however if I would have been hit like that...hitting the deck woukd not have been my first or even second thought.
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Post by tcoat on Jul 20, 2024 8:37:12 GMT -5
Should have been more clear, I meant watching the video.. meaning the first few seconds. The gunshots didn't sound like real gunshots, he grabbed his ear, stood there long enough for me to think wait, is he joking? Where is secret service? Then he ducks. I by no means think it was some wacko political stunt. Sorry for the confusion. That's one of the common misconceptions going around about this incident. They sounded exactly like real gunshots would sound from that distance, and I would have been suspicious if he HAD immediately ducked, because that would have meant that he was expecting someone to be shooting. It wasn't until he saw the blood on his hand after reaching up to figure out "what the hell just hit my ear?!" and saw the attendees get hit that he realized what was happening and took cover. It happened fast, and if you're truly not expecting something so surreal to happen, it takes a few seconds to react to it. My brother, who was a Staff Sergeant with USMC 1/23 in Ramadi, Iraq in 2004 has echoed what Stik said about that distance being an easy kill and there would be no way in hell to guarantee the person on the receiving end that he would only have his ear grazed. I understand that you were just talking about your initial thoughts though...and that's what was happening with Trump...his reaction was very much a "What?!! No way this is happening right now!" reaction. The "staged" conspiracy theories have just gotten me spun up like Stik. This^ The whole incident from the hit to his ear until the shots stops takes place in under 6 seconds. Watching the video you can see he responds in about 2 seconds after being hit. The bullet is supersonic so at that range it would have hit him a fraction of a second before anybody ever even heard the report. Even if he HAD know there is no way they could have timed a planned duck and cover to occur at precisely the 2 second time period it would be needed.
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