Does it Take Time or Talent?

[Steve Zuleski]

I’ve never really inquired about this subject before on any other site until recently, but yall are some pretty mellow, squared away gentlemen, so I thought I’d get your input. I know I’ll get an honest answer. I’ll try to keep it short.

This is more of a motivational set of comments to encourage some of my fellow “paint sniffers” to explore the less traveled road of figure painting, as well as to ask your thoughts on the concept in general. The figure boards on most model websites seem to be the least traveled, unless of course the site is specifically tailored for figures. So, feel free to share your thoughts, if you please. I’d love to hear them.

First off, so you know where I’m coming from in all this, my personal background is very simple. When it comes to figure painting, it was the very first thing I was ever taught to do correctly, and it stuck. All I saw sitting on that desk of the man who lived down the street, (Chief Editor of Campaigns Magazine, Donald Burgess), was a 120mm figure that I thought was so real that it could walk and talk. That so greatly impressed me as a kid that it has stuck with me from way back in the mid 70’s, and it’s never left my mind’s eye ever since.

I have no traditional artistic training, no color theory, no oil painting lessons, just trial and error and bookoo hours of practice. When I started playing with kits, I could put plastic together all messed up just as good as any kid on the block, back in the late 60's. Who cared what it looked like, it was going to crash and burn in the next toy soldier battle anyway. How many of you remember that?

So why don’t we see much traffic in the figure sections? Quite a few models do come with figures, and at some point-in time, we might find the need to have a few go along with our builds. Personally, from what I've heard over the years, there can be numerous reasons from, I don’t want to bother with them, mine aren’t good enough, or some may be intimidated by the whole concept altogether.

Whatever the case may be, anyone and everyone can paint figures if they have the desire and are willing to put in the time to learn. It doesn’t happen overnight and like I always say, “Nobody was ever born with a brush in their hands, and if they can do it, so can I.” If you take that attitude, you can see results quickly. I’ve seen it happen many times over the years and I love it!

So, if I’ve raised a few eyebrows in interest, I say, Ruck On! That’s a good thing.

How to get started: pick a simple kit, figure or bust, decide your medium (arylic or oils), get a decent set of brushes, and study the process. Youtube is your friend, and many great tutorials can be found there. But, your most important necessity, other than a willingness to try, is practice, practice, practice. I’m nobody special, and I claim no fame to any theory or special technique, so just find what works for you and use it. Also, carefully observe others' work and scrutinize every minute detail that is there, or is not there, and learn from it. Over time you will naturally spot techniques and processes that will be useful to your own work in the future.

Lastly, remember you will always be learning, cause if you ever think you’ve arrived, you haven’t, you just took a few steps backwards. There is always something more to learn, and not to mention, more incredible talent out there that makes you and me look like a Candy Stripers. Just take a gander at Putty&Paint.com, its jaw dropping how some of these artists can paint.

So, back to my question, “Does it take time or Talent?” Yall can tell me, but I know the answer. Hint, it can be a little of both.

Thanks for your time, Gents, and please feel free to comment. Cheers, Ski.

[project510]

I remember reading something about the power of practice. 15 minutes a day at something, and you can become an expert at it. So I guess my answer to you is, it is both. In the beginning it is practice, and after a certain point it becomes talent.

[kyledehart5]

Good thoughts here Ski. For me, I’ve never had much desire to build or paint figures. I guess as I started out as an auto modeler there wasn’t much point to me. And the main interest behind most of my builds is the machine itself, not the man… I’ve rarely even paint the race car driver figures that come with some of my racing kits. And they don’t have faces!! But lately I’ve been considering some scenes, small vignettes perhaps to bring some more life to some of my models so I have felt the need to maybe trying to dedicate some time to learning how to paint a figure. No doubt I’ll be terrible at it but that’s how we learn isn’t it? I’ve even accumulated some resin figures either from being included in kits or elsewhere. Suppose the only thing to do is get to painting!!

[tcoat]

I have dozens of figures to go with models but they are always secondary NOT the focus so I keep the painting to the very basics. Base colours and black wash is all they get. I also stick to my "what would it look like in scale distance" methods so 1/35 would be the same as viewing the real thing from about 30 feet away. This means things like badges, buttons, eyeballs, facial hair, etc would only be a hint of colour not a sharp and crisp object.

I just mention this because people that are nervous about doing figures should consider what they want out of them and determine how far they want to take the process based upon that.

Not up to to some standards but a simple paint job with just a black tinted future wash for shadows is plenty as secondary features. Took maybe 10 minutes total for each.

[kyledehart5]

Good point too. It’s important to remember the scales we’re working with. Digital photography makes everything look up close when it’s not meant to be viewed that way anyways.

[keavdog]

I think it's pick a methodology and practice, practice, practice. I got into it for a while in the late 90s early 2000s. I was liking where I was going and then kinda lost interest. I have a couple of figures I want to do but fear I'm rusty and need to relearn. Also need to replace all my base enamels and oils I suppose.

There are companies out there that sell sets of heads - great practice for face painting which I believe most find difficult.

This is the Tommys War (now going out of business) 1/32 Australian Light Horse (highly recommend the movie 'The Lighthorsemen') I've been wanting to build and paint this kit but Including my hesitations listed above - I've never done a horse.

This pic is from the manufacturer

[tcoat]

Aug 6, 2024 18:52:16 GMT -5 keavdog said:

I think it's pick a methodology and practice, practice, practice. I got into it for a while in the late 90s early 2000s. I was liking where I was going and then kinda lost interest. I have a couple of figures I want to do but fear I'm rusty and need to relearn. Also need to replace all my base enamels and oils I suppose.

There are companies out there that sell sets of heads - great practice for face painting which I believe most find difficult.

This is the Tommys War (now going out of business) 1/32 Australian Light Horse (highly recommend the movie 'The Lighthorsemen') I've been wanting to build and paint this kit but Including my hesitations listed above - I've never done a horse.

This pic is from the manufacturer

In this and any case where the figure is the main subject and focus then going all out is the only way to do it!

[armornutii]

   I normally work in 1/35 so like tcoat I go simple and generally am happy. Now I jumped on the 1/16the train....boy those figs are HUGE, and honestly I'm scared. Gotta say though this forum and all the talent that is shown here have motivated me to try, try, and try again. I also think that practice turns to talent.

[brandonk]

I pretty much do all the 1/35 figures I get with armor kits. I do so mainly as it makes the armor look better to have the figure. But, my goal overall is the be able to paint larger figures in general and be happy with the outcome. My problem is I try to get it painted in just few coats of medium and be happy and that has yet to work. I just need to follow the teaching of others and layer, layer layer and I'll get better in time. I'm certainly not afraid to do it, just might not be happy with my results. I think mostly time is needed and a touch of talent.

[Steve Zuleski]

Excellent comments, Me Hermanos. Like some of you have said, it's not your focal point and therefore the interest is low, completely understood and appreciated. I just read on another site, "figure painting being the Cinderella subject it is", is a good way of putting it as well, it can be.

Not everyone is going to want to dabble in figures and it will definitely take time to learn and perfect, like any other aspect of this hobby, but the interest must be present. I'd love to be able to produce cars like some of you guys put out, it's nuts, but that would mean “retooling” my brain, just as figure painting would for others.

However, the main point of this mental exercise is; if anyone is considering, or is even thinking about getting involved, those of us who do have experience are more than willing to share and expound upon our experience, techniques, and tips, and lend a hand, as much is possible not being there in person, if we can. That’s how we all learned, on the backs and shoulders of others.

Feel free to reach out to anyone posting in the figure section, Mods included, and send a PM if for some reason you’re not getting a reply. We may have missed it, but we’ll see it eventually. Traffic moves fast around here, so be aware of that.

Getting back into it, if you've been out of it for a while, is not as difficult as it may seem. Relearning your personal techniques takes time, but it does come back, trust me. I go through this every time I start a new season of painting faces and figures, it's back to the basics. It’s always been this way, so I expect a couple of days of bump and grind every single time I start a new set of figures. I look forward to it now since I already know how much fun it will be once I get back into the groove. Once the initial frustration has passed, yes it’s there, it’s all “Ruck Over Bby!” I know, that does sound a bit odd, ya?

Thanks for the input and honest responses, Gents, and please remember, if anyone has a question related to figures or how to paint or use a particular technique, we’ll assist any way we can.

[brandonk]

Well, I am getting ready to start painting my 1/24 pilot for my 109 build. Some helpful tips along the way will be greatly appreciated.

[Steve Zuleski]

Aug 7, 2024 13:02:53 GMT -5 brandonk said:

Well, I am getting ready to start painting my 1/24 pilot for my 109 build. Some helpful tips along the way will be greatly appreciated.

If you're an oiler like me, we're golden, but if an acrylic addict, not so much, but some. Hollar and we'll do our best, Amigo!

[kyledehart5]

I think I need to pick up some oil paints and pick Steve’s brain about figures. Lol!! I have a natural aversion to acrylic paint.

[vw8243]

Hi All

I wonder was it when digital cameras and resin figs with heads you could see the snot running from there nose that people became afraid of painting figs,we all know we can hide things on vehicles with mud and planes with bird strikes and flak smoke ,but with cameras zooming in now to see if the nostril hair is the right colour it can be daunting ?

   Other than on here no one sees my stuff but i still strive to improve on all areas of my modeling and enjoy what ever i build or paint ,at the moment iam taking time out to type this from painting six or seven figs for my Tiger dio , it dose help to have uninterrupted time to paint not having to pop out to collect little johnny from foot ball or cook dinner ,I find having good reverence pics,colors sorted a few brushes to hand helps , also I find doing a few figs together helps with colours  you know the whole German field gray ,Russian khaki, you can have slight variations ,
   Well i am going merrily back to my fig painting now .
    
   
   

[brandonk]

Aug 7, 2024 20:49:06 GMT -5 Steve Zuleski said:

Aug 7, 2024 13:02:53 GMT -5 brandonk said:

Well, I am getting ready to start painting my 1/24 pilot for my 109 build. Some helpful tips along the way will be greatly appreciated.

If you're an oiler like me, we're golden, but if an acrylic addict, not so much, but some. Hollar and we'll do our best, Amigo!

I do like using oils for weathering, but I don't have skin tones in oils. I do have tons of acrylic. I've been watching Vallejo videos on this and will give that a go. It's a different method than I've tried before. Certainly looks cool.

[garybrantley]

I am a real novice when it comes to figure painting.   When I needed to paint some ARVN crewmen for my Bulldog tank, I found this video by Martin Kovac very helpful.  It may give somebody a boost in confidence starting out because it is really an easy method for small scale figures. 

[Steve Zuleski]

Aug 8, 2024 9:39:10 GMT -5 brandonk said:

Aug 7, 2024 20:49:06 GMT -5 Steve Zuleski said:

If you're an oiler like me, we're golden, but if an acrylic addict, not so much, but some. Hollar and we'll do our best, Amigo!

I do like using oils for weathering, but I don't have skin tones in oils. I do have tons of acrylic. I've been watching Vallejo videos on this and will give that a go. It's a different method than I've tried before. Certainly looks cool.

If you've got something that already works for you, no need to change out unless you want to. Time and practice will lead to improvement, regardless of the medium. Ruck On!

Aug 8, 2024 8:34:40 GMT -5 vw8243 said:

Hi All

I wonder was it when digital cameras and resin figs with heads you could see the snot running from there nose that people became afraid of painting figs,we all know we can hide things on vehicles with mud and planes with bird strikes and flak smoke ,but with cameras zooming in now to see if the nostril hair is the right colour it can be daunting ?

   Other than on here no one sees my stuff but i still strive to improve on all areas of my modeling and enjoy what ever i build or paint ,at the moment iam taking time out to type this from painting six or seven figs for my Tiger dio , it dose help to have uninterrupted time to paint not having to pop out to collect little johnny from foot ball or cook dinner ,I find having good reverence pics,colors sorted a few brushes to hand helps , also I find doing a few figs together helps with colours  you know the whole German field gray ,Russian khaki, you can have slight variations ,
   Well i am going merrily back to my fig painting now .
    
   
   

You're Ruckin Over quite nicely, VW, I think you got this handled. But, we do appreciate you stopping to add some input. Back to the bench, Brotha!

Aug 8, 2024 5:25:49 GMT -5 kyledehart5 said:

I think I need to pick up some oil paints and pick Steve’s brain about figures. Lol!! I have a natural aversion to acrylic paint.

I'm going to add to this thread in a minute, see what you think, Kyle.

Aug 8, 2024 14:07:05 GMT -5 garybrantley said:

I am a real novice when it comes to figure painting.   When I needed to paint some ARVN crewmen for my Bulldog tank, I found this video by Martin Kovac very helpful.  It may give somebody a boost in confidence starting out because it is really an easy method for small scale figures. 

Martin is one talented Amigo. If this is working to help you out, that's the way to go, Gary. Pick the medium that works best for you and see how far you can take it. It's all about practice and having fun while you're at it.

[Steve Zuleski]

Hey Guys,

Just in case some of you were thinking of giving this a go, here’s a few articles on "oils" that I used to hone my skills over 10, maybe even 15yrs ago. The methods work today just as good as back then. Though I have refined my techniques over the years, the concept is the same.

I remember someone at a hobby shop way, way back when, suggested I try oils, but nobody told me how to use them, how they worked, or what to expect other than, you’re gonna love it. In the beginning it was all trial and error and the net wasn’t even a blip on the scope back then, mid 90’s.

Listed below are some article links from Missing-Lynx posted by Mark Bannerman. I owe Mark a ton of credit for posting these articles, they’re golden, and they’ll help you too, imho! And frankly, I never understood the hang-up with oils and why so many have taken to acrylics. They remind me too much of the old days of enamels and how blending was a joke, though somewhat possible. Something about constant layering just doesn’t jive with me, but that’s me.

So, if I were to suggest anything worth a good read before you ever wet a brush, it would be to study these methods and techniques Mark has laid out in these articles. It’s really not difficult, and if you apply yourself and don’t give up, you can break the learning curve and see great results quickly. That part is up to you.

If I was teaching a class in oils Mark would be getting royalties, so this is your curriculum. Once you’ve got the concept and have done some hands on, we can move on from there. What have you got to lose?? Nothin!

www.missing-lynx.com/articles/articles_figures.htm Main link, multiple article links
www.missing-lynx.com/articles/figures/mbheads/mbheads.htm
www.missing-lynx.com/articles/figures/mbface/mbface.htm
www.missing-lynx.com/articles/figures/mbpart2/mbpart2.htm
www.missing-lynx.com/articles/figures/mblarge.htm
www.missing-lynx.com/articles/figures/mblarge2.htm

So, not really a dare, but encouragement to say, "Hey, why not." and see where it takes you. Please post your work and progress so we can see how you’re doing. And for sure, holler if you reach a snag or something isn’t understood, and I will personally see how I can assist. This is, after all, all about “sniffin paint and gluin our fingers together”, right?

Cheers, Ski.

[stuartv]

I used to paint figures with oils years ago and when I got back into the hobby a year a go I wanted to try Acrylics. I watched lots of YouTube videos and then gave it a go, you can see the progress in my Flak 37 crew thread in the figure board. Personally I really like Acrylic, but I am still using oils for some blending work and great thing is you can mix both mediums and then seal your work with Acrylic varnish.

Practice and patience are the key, start with the face and paint up some of those old figures you have lying around. One thing to remember the better the quality of the head casting the easier it is to paint. So do worry if the old figures don't look so good, get a little practice in with these then try a Hornet Resin head or similar. Most important of all enjoy it.

[406 Silverado]

I've been reading this thread for the last couple of days and have yet to comment as there is so much good information and encouragement happening here. I've often thought about painting up a figure for one of my builds just for scale reference and to add action to my build and this is just the thread that I needed to topple me over the edge. My biggest obstacle is time right now. Even though you don't see me responding to every post on the forum, there's a TON of work that is going on behind the scenes so my bench time is limited to small spurts here and there. The key for me is to allow some time to learn the processes.

[Steve Zuleski]

Well said, Stuart. There are quite a few painters who use both mediums to great effect and yours is a perfect example. It's basically getting past the big toe and jumping right in. And if at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

Yes, Joe, and we appreciate how you've tackled this recovery and your efforts are not going unnoticed. But also remember, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, or something like that, HA! My dad always said there was never enough time in a day.

[Steve Zuleski]

Gents,

I'll get started and add some links I've found helpful in refining my techniques personally. This is all about oils, so be aware of that.

Daria Callie has a great set of tutorials on oils that I've had great results from personally.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QapONEamQg How to paint an eye.
www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGgRLbgcXjON9ZS5DaqMOQ Her main page.

I've scoured YT for other oilers and have found some pretty impressive talent to learn from, so there are a lot of helpful vids to work with. Remember, I'm not trying to recruit an oiler army, it's just my personal preference.

Below is a test run I did after studying this pretty little lady's tutorials in oils. It's very basic, but after following her process I was more than impressed at how quickly I got results. She teaches canvas work, but I knew I could use this on any figure, it's the same concept.



This was the result of working with her process on one of the Arnhem figures. This was by far one of the most realistic faces I have painted up to that time and I'm still pushing for more realism. Not quite there, not by a long shot, but I'm liking what I'm seeing.



Oh, and before I forget, as I did earlier, lol, learning to paint figures is best learned on Large Scale figures. 1/35th scale will only get you so far for really learning in depth, so keep that in mind if you are seriously wanting to get a good handle on this. Using a cheap bust or even 1/16th-120mm or 200mm heads will produce faster results because you will see your mistakes right up front, quickly, and you will address them immediately and learn from them. Keep it simple in the beginning and go large, it will be more enjoyable and you'll be less likely to get discouraged and want to give up. This applies to acrylics just as well as oils.

Lastly, a point to be made in regards to which medium you chose. I believe we've all seen how incredibly well some artists have been able to work acrylics to such realism that you'd be hard pressed to top the results with anything else, even in oils. But we've also seen faces done with oils that are so naturally realistic that they could be judged the same. It all comes down to personal preference and how far you want to take this, and honestly, the sky is the limit.

And if any of the other figure painters have any good links in either preferred medium, please post them for reference.

[aaronw]

Yes 😀

As far as not seeing much activity outside of figure specific forums I think that is just a thing.

Figures are often just extra parts or scenery for many modelers, and traditionally kit included figures have been pretty low quality, so are not worthy of highlighting. Many older kits don't even include whole figures, just a head, or head and torso with arms.

Better quality aftermarket figures were very niche items for many modelers until the past 10-20 years (internet is great).


On the otherside those who paint figures as the main focus tend to gravitate towards specific types of forums, wargaming, roleplaying and figure sites where the traffic for figure painting is heavier.

I feel like figures are tangental to the plastic model hobby where they are far more of an integral part of other hobbies. That is a big part of what you are seeing.


I was building models and painting figures by 5th grade but while they had shared skills they were part of different hobbies.

[Steve Zuleski]

Aug 9, 2024 11:57:53 GMT -5 aaronw said:

I was building models and painting figures by 5th grade but while they had shared skills they were part of different hobbies.

That is a good point to be made there and I tend to agree. I would consider this very similar to me trying to build a show room car. However, I did try, and it was an epic fail!

[kyledehart5]

Ah you could do it Steve. Much like your figures the paint on cars just takes a bit of time and practice. I’m still not very good at it myself and I’ve been doing it for years. 😂

[Steve Zuleski]

Aug 9, 2024 14:16:43 GMT -5 kyledehart5 said:

Ah you could do it Steve. Much like your figures the paint on cars just takes a bit of time and practice. I’m still not very good at it myself and I’ve been doing it for years. 😂

I recon, after a brain rewire and some bunker retooling, I might be good, lol.

[dean48ws]

Aug 9, 2024 10:38:08 GMT -5 Steve Zuleski said:

Gents,

I'll get started and add some links I've found helpful in refining my techniques personally. This is all about oils, so be aware of that.

Daria Callie has a great set of tutorials on oils that I've had great results from personally.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QapONEamQg How to paint an eye.
www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGgRLbgcXjON9ZS5DaqMOQ Her main page.

I've scoured YT for other oilers and have found some pretty impressive talent to learn from, so there are a lot of helpful vids to work with. Remember, I'm not trying to recruit an oiler army, it's just my personal preference.

Below is a test run I did after studying this pretty little lady's tutorials in oils. It's very basic, but after following her process I was more than impressed at how quickly I got results. She teaches canvas work, but I knew I could use this on any figure, it's the same concept.



This was the result of working with her process on one of the Arnhem figures. This was by far one of the most realistic faces I have painted up to that time and I'm still pushing for more realism. Not quite there, not by a long shot, but I'm liking what I'm seeing.



Oh, and before I forget, as I did earlier, lol, learning to paint figures is best learned on Large Scale figures. 1/35th scale will only get you so far for really learning in depth, so keep that in mind if you are seriously wanting to get a good handle on this. Using a cheap bust or even 1/16th-120mm or 200mm heads will produce faster results because you will see your mistakes right up front, quickly, and you will address them immediately and learn from them. Keep it simple in the beginning and go large, it will be more enjoyable and you'll be less likely to get discouraged and want to give up. This applies to acrylics just as well as oils.

Lastly, a point to be made in regards to which medium you chose. I believe we've all seen how incredibly well some artists have been able to work acrylics to such realism that you'd be hard pressed to top the results with anything else, even in oils. But we've also seen faces done with oils that are so naturally realistic that they could be judged the same. It all comes down to personal preference and how far you want to take this, and honestly, the sky is the limit.

And if any of the other figure painters have any good links in either preferred medium, please post them for reference.

I've done a few figures with very mixed results. I'll try to find time to post 1 that I'm stuck on for some comment and suggestions. I'm 100% on the practice makes perfect idea but finding "cheap" large scale subjects in Oz is next to impossible. Anything from overseas becomes unviable with the postage addded, IF they'll even post here!

[Steve Zuleski]

Absolutely, Dean post what ya got and we'll see how we can assist. Below are a few more great vids that might help as well, but they are in oils.

A few more vids from different painters.

www.youtube.com/@smallsoldier

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R-mYOic1tY

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MypfwmGNXqU

And this is nuts, very impressive;
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DPY85oBkPI

[dean48ws]

Ok, of the half dozen figures I've done, here are what I think are the best 2 and then the 1 who's face I can not get at all.





 I found this guy to be really satisfying to paint. To my mind there were no right or wrong colours here, just what I liked. I have no idea if the skin tones are correct and my apologies to anyone who finds my interpretation offensive. I did struggle with shadowing here, It either looked like warpaint or I ended up with it too wide and it looked like a skin condition.





Again, I think I have the basics ok but it is the detailing on the face that I struggled with so I went with less is more hoping that the mud would counter balance the plain finish. I still need to make the sling for the SLR. He is moulded as being wet but I didn't try to enhance that in any way.
I used an etch primer, acrylic base coat and then topped over this with oils. Acrylics i can kinda get to work with the airbrush but struggle with using a paint brush.





And this SOB is going nowhere! The uniform is done in the acrylics as was the head. I tried shading with acrylics but it was awful. Then restarted with oils but he looked like his 4 year old daughter had put his make up on.
Not really being into military stuff, I find choosing colours daunting and then when I do, quite often what's inside the bottle is different from what I think I'm getting.
Anyway gents, there it is, any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[Mike]

This thread is awesome! I couldn't agree with your first post any more if I wanted to, Ski. I've always had trouble trying to articulate this subject. You said it brilliantly!