Hinksy
Full Member
Member since: June 2012
THE ENGLISH LIONHEART - HINKSY!
Posts: 1,016
Jun 22, 2012 16:46:21 GMT -5
Jun 22, 2012 16:46:21 GMT -5
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Post by Hinksy on Mar 23, 2013 17:33:49 GMT -5
Hi chaps, Righto, now the Elefant is done and dusted I'm looking at getting my next build underway.  www.dragon-models.com/d-m-item.asp?pid=DRA6363Unless I pick up a kit from tomorrows show that I'm at that has 'BUILD ME NOW' written on it I'll be building this cracking little kit! I've been having a rummage and am very impressed by the quality of the mouldings, the instructions and the PE and it should make make for a nice Pz. IV build - I don't have a 'proper' IV in my cabinet, just Dragon's older Brummbar kit that has the same or similar chassis? I've made the decision that this will be a whitewashed tank - I'll only use AK's Worn Effects solution instead of their Heavy Chipping Solution as it offers a lot more control over roughing up the whitewash - I want it to look just worn lightly as if it's not been in place long. Now, here's the dilemma: I like to look at wbill's site to see his work and was glad to see he'd built this very kit. He painted his basecoat grey BUT the box art shows a whitewash over DY scheme. Bill mentioned this and went on to build a lovely Pz. IV: www.bpmodels.net/Model/Album/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24 I hope you don't mind me posting this link Bill? The box art also shows some perfectly sized and accurate red numbers painted on over the whitewash - a little odd surely? There are 4 options for schemes - two whitewash jobbies: LAH 1943 and Pz.Rgt.GD, Pz.Gren.Div '43-'44 then there is a grey Kharkov 1943 tank and a final DY Greece option. The Grey tank has white decals, the DY one also white, one of the w/wash jobs has white numbers and the other red like the box art - I'm liking that option. QUESTIONS:I want to paint a grey IV with a whitewash - can I do this to be truly accurate? I'm not normally too fussy but I want this build spot on. If it has to be be a DY base then so be it but a grey basecoat under a whitewash always looks killer!
Also, the red decals? Should I put these onto the basecoat then leave them masked for when I do the whitewash so they show through? I can't imagine troops taking time to paint neat numbers on a messy whitewash?
It's a 1943 vehicle - I can't recall when the proper changeover came into effect. There is a grey option so could this Grey tank have had a whitewash? Why not?I hope you can help guys, Thanks for dropping by, Ben  |
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Post by Leon on Mar 23, 2013 17:41:28 GMT -5
Ben,i could be mistaken,i think in 1943 the base coat was changed to dark yellow.  |
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Post by 406 Silverado on Mar 23, 2013 17:47:34 GMT -5
Ben awesome kit, have it myself.
As for the change over, 2-18 1943. That does not mean that vehicles painted before that change were all re pained. I am sure there were some gray tanks well into 1943 before they got re painted, or at least a camo using the Gelb. So yes you can go for the Gray with W/W.
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Post by Leon on Mar 23, 2013 17:52:50 GMT -5
Thanks Rob.Forgot all about that.  |
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Hinksy
Full Member
Member since: June 2012
THE ENGLISH LIONHEART - HINKSY!
Posts: 1,016
Jun 22, 2012 16:46:21 GMT -5
Jun 22, 2012 16:46:21 GMT -5
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Post by Hinksy on Mar 23, 2013 18:38:47 GMT -5
Ben awesome kit, have it myself. As for the change over, 2-18 1943. That does not mean that vehicles painted before that change were all re pained. I am sure there were some gray tanks well into 1943 before they got re painted, or at least a camo using the Gelb. So yes you can go for the Gray with W/W. Cheers Rob, Any ideas on the decals? I'm not laying neat red decals over a worn white wash so I'm thinking apply decals to basecoat, mask them off and then add whitewash. Sound ok? Ben |
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Post by 406 Silverado on Mar 23, 2013 18:39:58 GMT -5
Ben, sorry, yes the decs over the gray, then W/W.
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Post by wbill76 on Mar 23, 2013 20:58:09 GMT -5
No problems at all with you posting the link Ben, that's why they are there! You're going to have a lot of fun with this kit. The reason you see the different schemes in the finishing guide is down to the fact that the IV-G production began in June 1942 well before the switch to DY in Feb 1943 as Rob and the others have pointed out. That means that in the winter of '42-'43 there were quite a few PG IV-Gs running around that would've had a WW finish, so you're good there. The Kharkov specific vehicles for LAH on the other hand have been clearly documented as shipped to LAH in DY with what appear to be very uniform/clean factory-applied and not field-applied WW schemes, so they represent a 'special' case in that regard from the historical accuracy standpoint. I didn't know about that when I was doing my build and is why I went back and added that into the build log for other's reference when doing the same kit. |
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Hinksy
Full Member
Member since: June 2012
THE ENGLISH LIONHEART - HINKSY!
Posts: 1,016
Jun 22, 2012 16:46:21 GMT -5
Jun 22, 2012 16:46:21 GMT -5
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Post by Hinksy on Mar 24, 2013 4:19:47 GMT -5
No problems at all with you posting the link Ben, that's why they are there! You're going to have a lot of fun with this kit. The reason you see the different schemes in the finishing guide is down to the fact that the IV-G production began in June 1942 well before the switch to DY in Feb 1943 as Rob and the others have pointed out. That means that in the winter of '42-'43 there were quite a few PG IV-Gs running around that would've had a WW finish, so you're good there. The Kharkov specific vehicles for LAH on the other hand have been clearly documented as shipped to LAH in DY with what appear to be very uniform/clean factory-applied and not field-applied WW schemes, so they represent a 'special' case in that regard from the historical accuracy standpoint. I didn't know about that when I was doing my build and is why I went back and added that into the build log for other's reference when doing the same kit. Thanks Rob and Bill, Bill - sorry, I missed the bit where you mentioned changing your tank from LAH to the Pz. Grey, white numbered vehicle as you say that the LAH IV.s were ALL painted DY. Hmmmm? I must admit that I do like working with grey when whitewashing so I'll have to think about this one - I did want a LAH vehicle though  Thanks for the help guys, Ben |
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Post by wing_nut on Mar 24, 2013 10:01:19 GMT -5
When i did my version of 205 i came across some online info that said this set of vehicles was originally to be sent to North Africa and were redirected to the eastern front. That's why i went with the yellow base. It went on to say that they were painted white in thee factory before being shipped out. When I built this kit it was about the same time the Bundes Archive opened its files and there were a gazillion fantastic war photos to go through. I saw quite a few of this and other vehicles from that group that were pretty beat up yet the white was in pretty good shape which to me made some sense if it really were factory applied as opposed to slathered on with mops etc. in the field.
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Hinksy
Full Member
Member since: June 2012
THE ENGLISH LIONHEART - HINKSY!
Posts: 1,016
Jun 22, 2012 16:46:21 GMT -5
Jun 22, 2012 16:46:21 GMT -5
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Post by Hinksy on Mar 25, 2013 8:53:35 GMT -5
When i did my version of 205 i came across some online info that said this set of vehicles was originally to be sent to North Africa and were redirected to the eastern front. That's why i went with the yellow base. It went on to say that they were painted white in thee factory before being shipped out. When I built this kit it was about the same time the Bundes Archive opened its files and there were a gazillion fantastic war photos to go through. I saw quite a few of this and other vehicles from that group that were pretty beat up yet the white was in pretty good shape which to me made some sense if it really were factory applied as opposed to slathered on with mops etc. in the field. Hmmm, So, it seems if I were wanting to build a true LAH Pz. IV I'd need to paint it DY and use the red decals. If I wanted a grey basecoat I'd have to build it like wbill and use the white decals as he did? Food for thought? Cheers guys - am I correct in my thinking? Anyhow, I'm all ready to go now. I picked up an RB 'G' barrel at the show I went to yesterday and as I'm using only the kit supplied PE and the Magic Tracks it's nigh on an OOB build and should be great. This should be a corking little build - the detail on the moulding is exquisite and a well done whitewash should make this a memorable build worthy of a nice base. Ben Ben |
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Post by deafpanzer on Mar 25, 2013 8:57:45 GMT -5
Like we always say its your build... follow your heart. I have followed many of your builds and you have already done several panzer grey with winter camo on. I don't think I have seen you doing a DY with winter camo.  Just a little hint... Again its YOUR build... |
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jsteinman
Full Member
Member since: March 2013
Posts: 735
Mar 24, 2013 9:29:10 GMT -5
Mar 24, 2013 9:29:10 GMT -5
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Post by jsteinman on Mar 25, 2013 8:58:54 GMT -5
Hello. I have spent many hours researching LSSAH at Kharkov. This particular tank should be dark yellow under the white wash. What I have issue with is why DML insists on the red turret numbers. I have yet to see what I think is red insides. It is my belief that the inner color on all LSSAH vehicles at that time should be the base color of the tank. I even worked with Woody at Archer to make correction sets for the DML Pz II and Pz III series as well as a set for the 1/24 Tasca Pz II. But if it makes you feel better, I like white over grey better, just much more contrast and red turrent numbers sure do make nice aiming points! Go with you gut, just trying to give you more info to make your choice!
HTH,
John
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Hinksy
Full Member
Member since: June 2012
THE ENGLISH LIONHEART - HINKSY!
Posts: 1,016
Jun 22, 2012 16:46:21 GMT -5
Jun 22, 2012 16:46:21 GMT -5
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Post by Hinksy on Mar 26, 2013 7:23:51 GMT -5
Hello. I have spent many hours researching LSSAH at Kharkov. This particular tank should be dark yellow under the white wash. What I have issue with is why DML insists on the red turret numbers. I have yet to see what I think is red insides. It is my belief that the inner color on all LSSAH vehicles at that time should be the base color of the tank. I even worked with Woody at Archer to make correction sets for the DML Pz II and Pz III series as well as a set for the 1/24 Tasca Pz II. But if it makes you feel better, I like white over grey better, just much more contrast and red turrent numbers sure do make nice aiming points! Go with you gut, just trying to give you more info to make your choice! HTH, John Thanks for that John, I'm still undecided as to the decals and basecoat colour but it's one of two: 1) The way Bill did his with a grey basecoat, a well applied whitewash and the white decals or 2) The LAH vehicle withDY basecoat and lightly worn W/Wash with red decals She'll be on the bench starting this weekend (this 4 day, Easter Weekend-woo hoo)! Thanks again fellas, Ben |
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Just a little hint... 
