King Tiger from the 501

[wing_nut]

As Tony Soprano might say, "Yous was robbed!"




And seriously biting my lip to not get into the comments that were made but... Really? I will say i agree with beast.

[AndyArgent.]

It was fantastic before now its phenominal

[bullardino]

Oct 1, 2013 12:25:25 GMT -5 AndyArgent. said:

It was fantastic before now its phenominal

I quote every single word

[bbd468]

Hiya Mac, I agree with what Stuart (Beast) is sayin. I do go to model shows and while there is some Buddy-Buddy type stuff goin on in the judging and very inconsistent, a Master piece will be recognized by all. Your KT woulda won Armor Best of show in every model show ive ever attended.

It is truly a Master Piece Mac and a Champion in my book!

[Deleted]

When we paint and weather we are creating a 3d snapshot of that vehicle. It's frozen in time at that moment just like a photo. Every kit we build and finish is open to comment and critique. I truly believe that evaluation of a build of this caliber is fully subjective.

There is no one to say what color the green "should" be. I remind folks all the time that there are few if any color photos from back then. Due to the passage of time the ones that do exist cannot be trusted as accurate. The process of painting these beasts is well documented. That in and of itself should lend credence to the fact that exact colors cannot be determined. 

What my car looks like right now parked in the garage is far and away different from when I drove her home the first time. She will look different tomorrow after the desert wind and dust conspire to make her filthy again. Scratches? Don't get me started. I refer to my opening paragraph.

Your Tiger is a remarkable build and fully deserving of awards. Having been denied those, remember your peers here think the work is superb, and look to you as inspiration. 

G 

[beast]

Oct 1, 2013 14:29:50 GMT -5 @agentg said:

When we paint and weather we are creating a 3d snapshot of that vehicle. It's frozen in time at that moment just like a photo. Every kit we build and finish is open to comment and critique. I truly believe that evaluation of a build of this caliber is fully subjective.

There is no one to say what color the green "should" be. I remind folks all the time that there are few if any color photos from back then. Due to the passage of time the ones that do exist cannot be trusted as accurate. The process of painting these beasts is well documented. That in and of itself should lend credence to the fact that exact colors cannot be determined. 

What my car looks like right now parked in the garage is far and away different from when I drove her home the first time. She will look different tomorrow after the desert wind and dust conspire to make her filthy again. Scratches? Don't get me started. I refer to my opening paragraph.

Your Tiger is a remarkable build and fully deserving of awards. Having been denied those, remember your peers here think the work is superb, and look to you as inspiration. 

G 

Excellent post!
Maybe someone had a color chart from Dulux?

[wing_nut]

your peers here think the work is superb, and look to you as inspiration.


Well said.

[Deleted]

Someone had a color chart that began: "Long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away.................. "



G

[Deleted]

Mac , that took some time and patience to go back and change the look of your KT ! I applaud your effort in changing the look of the weathering . She's a work of art ..........for me she was a work of art before also . I don't enter contest myself . My thinking about the judging is "opinions are like arsholes - everyone has one .
Beautiful work of art my friend !

[bbd468]

Oct 1, 2013 15:24:01 GMT -5 beast said:

Maybe someone had a color chart from Dulux?

LOL   I actually painted some golf-cart trailers with Dulux 20 years ago or more.....its sucked!!! Used alot of Imron & Centari though.

[TomN.]

Just beautiful Mac...may I ask how you went about lightening the green color?

Tom

[fightnjoe]

mac i have never been to a show let alone entered one. i have read posts like yours that tell of what a builder had either done "wrong" or had not gone far enough on. i must say i am as impressed with your work now as when i first looked at your pics. your paint work is stunning. your construction was crisp and clean. i would have been interested in seeing you take the build as it was to another show. i would have been interested to see what kind of reaction it received.


joe

[losboz]

I saw it in the flesh at Euro and have got to say it looked amazing then. I understand the whole issues of colour authenticity and in- scale weathering is very subjective but I think the very best accoladed work will always set the benchmark higher and higher each time.
I think if you can be tall enough (no pun intended Mac ) to take criticism on board and then improve on it then its defo the way forward to improve your skill set.

The additional work photos look amazing and will be kept as ref pics for whenever I get round to building a KT

[wing_nut]

opinions are like arsholes - everyone has one .

And most of 'em stink!

[wbill76]

Can definitely see the changes you made Mac, and have to agree with Andy's assessment. Beautiful piece of work you've got here.

[danb.]

Congrats on the highly commended buddy i was looking at the Jadgtiger at Euro and thought it had the Mac style all over but was not sure if it was yours great colours for me personally on that 1

I personally think at Euro you cant make a realistic model and hope to win like your Tiger it looks just how it would be not too much staining or streaks not over done on the mud and dirt front perfect but the judges did not like them parts you say that Lesters build was good it was but it had a drinks cooler and desk chair strapped to the engine grilles that would impair the engines breathing capabilities and i have never seen a tank with that much stuff strapped to it so quite far from realistic IMHO i think leave the Tiger as it is and for next year build a model just for Euro loads of pe, etreme pre shading and strap loads of crap too it

My Abrams had several parts wrong with it too i asked 1 of the KMK boys on what the judges would be looking for he said the colour was too faded and washed out also because i did not use any PE it lacked scale thickness on some parts ie the armour tiles and such like but he did like the scratches and rust streaks i went to Euro with the attitude of not medaling and used the weekend as a learning curve i studied all the winners and will be making a model that would fit in with them maybe this will be a way of pleasing the judges next year lol

Dan B

[macmcconnell.]

Amazing feed back gents,
I accepted the judges outcome on the day and the next morning got a run down on faults.
I put the list up as a help so people can see the difference in view one could have. On the Green score I agree 100% on colour can change ,but I think the point was it would look nicer a little lighter...........and it does to my eye.
The other King Tiger that everyone loved on missing lynx got Silver I thought that was a sure fire Gold, I would like to think that both these Tigers looked better in the flesh.
There were other models like the Leopard that looked nowhere near as good in the flesh.
Hopefully with the improvements and a nice Diorama it might do better with said improvements.
I can only say all your support on this is most appreciated and has lifted my modelling spirits.

[elco]

Your KT looks the bomb Mac. I do agree that it deserved a medal looking at the pics.. I think it is refreshing talking to skilled fellow modelers and judges at a show. The improvements you made are top notch and proves that these constructive comments do help. Carry on with your great builds

Cheers,

Elco

[Tobi]

Oct 2, 2013 2:00:28 GMT -5 danb. said:

(...)
My Abrams had several parts wrong with it too i asked 1 of the KMK boys on what the judges would be looking for he said the colour was too faded and washed out also because i did not use any PE it lacked scale thickness on some parts ie the armour tiles and such like but he did like the scratches and rust streaks i went to Euro with the attitude of not medaling and used the weekend as a learning curve i studied all the winners and will be making a model that would fit in with them maybe this will be a way of pleasing the judges next year lol

Dan B

Dan, your approach can be one answer, my answer would be to simply stay away from that contest! There are others. Why should I build a model the judges would like, but is unrealistic (as you pointed out well with the gear) and therefore not appealing to me? Just to please them and get an award? If it were a commission build, ok, but in any other instance: "NO!"

I can perfectly remember the sentence from Bernhard Lustig about my BTR-60 2 years ago in Oberschleissheim (it scored Silver): "The model is looking overall too flat. This may be realistic for such a faded and worn paint job, but with some semi-gloss streaks it would be more appealing." ()

I say two things. 1st, if it's not all about a realistic finish, why would everybody struggle with it then? 2nd, from the accompanying figures and the rest of the weathering it should have been clear that this was an African setting in a dusty and dry condition.

I also can't believe that e.g. Sven Frisch's amazing Elefant didn't score in a contest, forgot where. He told me he believes his chipping effects were too fine! When you see pictures of the ring around the cupola you'd swear this is the real deal and in the flesh the model as a whole looks even better! A masterpiece to me.

There is no point arguing about taste. Simply that and I'm building models for my liking, not theirs and also not for medals...

Cheers,
Tobi

[macmcconnell.]

Tom I just added a few washes/filters mig oils mixed with thinner and a tad humbrol cockpit green.

Thanks Elco stug might be up soon.

.Advin that's one of the great WHYS realistic or model its hard I entered several models in different styles only one got an award but on actual skill level my BMP was the best ,but .to flat like you I thought dusty abandoned no fresh stains.
I like contests and Euro is as high as it gets to most people.
Bernhard does like his fresh stains ,but he is a master and one I admire greatly hope my models will be as good as his one day.
If you like to do your own thing so be it and that's fine ,but competition is a different matter and if modellers cant take the knocks don't do it. I enjoy the challenge better luck next year to all.

Rgs Mac

[Tobi]

If you like to do your own thing so be it and that's fine ,but competition is a different matter and if modellers cant take the knocks don't do it. I enjoy the challenge better luck next year to all.

Rgs Mac[/quote]



Mac, don't think of me being unable of taking the knocks, as you put it. Especially as a mid-experienced modeler taking part in competitions was a good thing, as constructive criticism would help me to improve myself. But there have been always occasions I would disagree with the criticism on my model. Not speaking of others and not that 'I-should-have-won-and-not-that-other-guy'-Bullshit.

I can stand a competition and I won some awards. Only national and not so prestigious of course, but it does for me. With people like Bernhard Lustig and Sven Frisch in the jury, I can also say these were guys who knew the international game. Nevertheless, at the moment I feel I'm through with it, maybe I just need a pause, maybe I say next March, 'what the heck', and place my entry on the table again.

All I'm saying is, don't start building for competition, build for yourself! If the judges like it, good, if not, good as well. If I feel the criticism is useful, I will make my conclusions, if I think it's ridiculous, I ignore it!

I know from personal conversation with Sven, you're on the best way of loosing the fun when you start and try pleasing someone else for a little brass!

Cheers,
Tobi

[macmcconnell.]

Sorry Tobi in my own clumsy way of trying to explain I may have offended you that was not the case I had intended.
I like you have found it hard to take the knocks when the lines get vague between models and real time vehicles and judges move the goal posts to suit there decision.
With out doubt Euro can be a mine field with ever changing styles but well painted vehicles do well one would hope.
We have seen heavy dry brushing, then the Mig/ Spanish style on to the Adam wilder Hi contrast /modulation and now a return to more muted realistic vehicles which is what I prefer.
I do have a high build rate which lets me down may be I should slow down a bit. I do build for Euro as I enjoy the challenge while I did not agree with all the comments I got at Euro some were helpful.
I love what your doing with the Leopard very nice.

Rgs Mac

[Marcel du Long]

Thanks guys, but I admire the judge concerned greatly and valued his time and comments and having just done the green he was right they both said at other shows it would do well but up against the best in the world you cant make errors. Take a look at Lesters T55 that was amazing his weathering was perfection in scale mine was in places in others it was not so good. But presentation was on point which normally for me is poor I spent the extra on name it and bases made by Rob Kingston. Some top name modellers did not do so well from Holland, England and Germany. I hope after the improvements you will agree. I always ask on the Sunday were did I go wrong......................one day it will go right as it did for Andy aka The Golden Child he got everything just right.

Way to go!
I don't want to get involved in the Euro judging discussion but the way you handle criticism is just great!
Chapeau!

Although you did a perfect job on this Tiger (which I saw live at the Euro) the dirt/washes were quite dark imho.
So the tweaks you're adding now are just leveling up the whole project.
Well done and I love to see a dio with it!

Bye,
Marcel.

[macmcconnell.]

Thanks Marcel
The mud was dark ish as I want it later on a Ardennes Diorama. The idea being its only been stopped a short while after some movement and the heat is drying out the mud from the tracks.
I am glad you liked it, I only posted the judges comments to aid in the update so people could understand were I may have fallen foul I am already at work on a few things,but I think on a Diorama the Tiger will come into its own.

Rgs Mac