38(t) Chassis Variants - HELP Needed with my New Project:

[Hinksy]

Hi guys!

As some of you will know I'm on a '38(t) chassis trip' at the minute and as a result I've decided that starting now with my current WIP Hetzer to build EVERY POSSIBLE VARIANT of the AFV's built on this chassis that I can I've decided to make this my project for the year and am going to give this my all! I'm very excited!

So far I have built:

*1) Trumpeter's 38(t) Ausf.E/F



*2) Tamiya's Mid production Hetzer in Ambush Scheme (this is one of my newbie builds and and has since been used for W/Wash & Hairspray technique practice but still looks cool)



Below- Here is my original (Newbie) Tamiya mid production Hetzer after I gave it a fresh coat of DY and new decals but prior to the whitewashing:



*3) My current WIP is Academy's EARLY Hetzer (a fairly new kit I understand):



Now - onto the Marder III's:

*1) I did build the early Version Tamiya III when I was a total noob but that's a bag of poo now which I want to replace with a brand new one - I now have this kit in the stash and it will be getting the treatment when I complete the Hetzer!



www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/german/tam35248.htm

I have Tamiya's Marder III 'M' on my 'shopping list' - this will be built alongside the other Marder III above. I haven't actually ordered it yet but I think I'll go for the 'modeller friendly' Tamiya version. I tried to build Dragon's mind-bendingly complicated Marder III Ausf.M Befehlsjager but failed in a big way and the PE fret and wheels from that kit will be making an appearance on my next few builds - ie there is a lovely PE Grouser Box on that Frey which will replace the Academy Hetzer box as it's overscale and doesn't have proper holes - just marks on it. I'll keep that and drill the holes out, mind you

So, I am NOT going to build the Befehls version again HOWEVER I know Dragon do a basic III M which, knowing Tamiya prices, might be a better option as it will come with a lighter price tag, more PE, an interior and Magic Tracks as opposed to rubber bands. On the flipside I do recall how difficult the Befehls build was and if the only difference is the lack of radio stuff I might be walking into another potential disaster - That said I do have two years experience under my belt since I last tried the Dragon III M and feel I could build the basic version of that now without major issues.

So, which Marder III M kit should I go for? See the options below:

Tamiya's offering:



www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/tamiya/tam35255.htm

Dragon's offering:



www.dragon-models.com/d-m-item.asp?pid=DRA6464


I've also found this one - does this warrant a build of it's own i.e. is it a 'recognised variant' that I should look at building! Marder III Ausf M (Initial Production w/Stadtgas)



www.dragon-models.com/d-m-item.asp?pid=CHC6468

www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/cyberhobby/chc6468.html

As far as I'm concerned I have the 38(t) tank built in it's Ausf E/F guise. Should I be building an Ausf A/D and an Ausf.S too?

What about the Grille (photo below) too - just thought of that one (Dammit)?



> So, that's where I'm at my esteemed modelling friends  Do I have the 38(t) chassis variants with what I have built and what will be building? I've seen some field modified 38t chassis with an AA gun mounted on it, stuff like that, but am I missing anything out?

I love these tanks, the variants, the opportunity to build some open-topped Marder III's showing the breech area (I love that stuff), only EIGHT very large roadwheels as opposed to 16 roadwheels on a Panzer IV which have to be cleaned up in 'halves' and assembled! Basically, they look totally cool and I'm taking this new project on with a newfound enthusiasm! Seriously, I'm really excited!

To sum-up: If anyone can give me an accurate list of what I need to be building to complete this project that would be great! Also, kit suggestions, variant suggestions - links to helpful stuff etc - wbill & Gary, this sounds like a post custom made for your combined knowledge to help me with!

I'm serious about this and totally have my 38(t) head on now!

Thanks fellas,

Ben

[bbrowniii]

Hey Hinsky

You should send Dupes a message. A couple years ago, he and I put together a pretty comprehensive list of every variant of the 38(t) and the available kits. If I know Dupes, he still has it somewhere. I do to, but it is on my old computer with a broken screen, so until I fix it, I can't find it for you.

[bbrowniii]

Don't forget the Aufklarungspanzer 38(t) and all the 38(t) Flakpanzers... man the list of potential builds is extensive! Great project. You're making me want to go dig out some of my 38(t)chassis!!!

[bbrowniii]

Oh, and finally, to your question above - I have the Tamiya offering. Great little kit. Typical Tamiya. Really nice detail that can easily be 'dressed up' if you want to put some extra into it.

I am not familiar with the Dragon variant. The only Marder I have built is the Tristar kit of the H variant. THAT was a tricky little kit!

[Hinksy]

Feb 13, 2014 10:47:45 GMT -5 bbrowniii said:

Oh, and finally, to your question above - I have the Tamiya offering. Great little kit. Typical Tamiya. Really nice detail that can easily be 'dressed up' if you want to put some extra into it.

I am not familiar with the Dragon variant. The only Marder I have built is the Tristar kit of the H variant. THAT was a tricky little kit!

Thanks bbrownii! Thanks for the tip, have some Karma on me

I'll give Dupes the heads up and pm him a link to my thread so he can't miss it!

I had forgotten about the Tristar kits - between Trumpy, Tamiya, Dragon/Cyber Hobby and, now Tristar, I think I'll be covered!

I was planning a Pz.III variant project but having built about 60 the StuG III variants and 3 of the Panzer III variants (Ausf.N, H and N) and the Sig 33 I wanted something different. IMO, It's such a more 'involved' chassis on the Pz.III it put's me off building more of them as they feel so 'samey' and do get repetitive, particularly at the start of the build on the running gear.

What better than a 38(t) chassis - such a simple and easy to assemble chassis with 8 large wheels (one piece) in total they can't get repetitive as they are so quick to put together.

All them variants - the original 38(t), the Hetzers, the Marder III's (my personal favourite out of ALL the WWII AFV's along with the Pz.III's) and the Grille - that's just for starters now you've named the Aufklarungspanzer 38(t) and all the 38(t) Flakpanzers.

They all look so 'different' - that's the appeal for me!

I'm going to chuck myself straight into this project now. With the 38(t) Ausf E/F and the mid production Tamiya Hetzer in the cabinet along with the Academy Early Hetzer as my current wip and the Tamiya early Marder III in the stash I'm well set!

It's nice to have a project like this as research will be so much easier for a start plus I've got a very good idea on what kit's I do want.

Righto - lets git that there Hetzer BUILT! YEEEHAAAW!

Thanks guys - any info you can help me with is all gratefully received and VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!

Ben

[wbill76]

This is a potentially massive undertaking you're setting yourself up for Ben...the 38(t) chassis was one of the most widely used/adapted chassis by the Germans and it remained in production throughout the war.

For the gun tank, you have the Ausf A, B, C, D, E/F, G, and S (export). There are also some command variants within that mix but essentially that's the gun tank.

You have the Marders, the III, III-H, III-M (with some variants/variations inside those lines as well)

You have the Grilles, the III-H, III-M

You have the Hetzer (Jagdpanzer) with Early, Mid, Late type variations in its run.

Other special variants include the Flakpanzer 38(t) Gepard, the Aufkalrungspanzer 38(t), and some other non-production variants/experiments along the SPG lines. Then you start getting into the 'Waffentrager' family as the 38(t) chassis was going to be used for several of those...but they are more of the 'paper' panzer variants.

That should be enough to get you started! Now as for kits available, I would advise you to use the MHI Kit Search function ( www.myhobbyinfo.com/pages/inteldesk/intelsearch.php ) to look for kits, the 38(t) is one of the most widely produced kits out there by the different manufacturers and it's far too numerous to try to list out here.

[detailfreak]

Lets not forget the BergeHetzer and the variant mounting the sig 33

[Deleted]

There is also the bergehetzer late, 38T munitionschlepper, marder III H, Bison, I also have a fairly comprehensive list as its on my to do list, just in 72nd

[Deleted]

think you need at least a couple of years! a vast undertaking and something that will take some planning mate, good luck!!

[Deleted]

BTW forgot to say the Dragon marder III M is the best, the cyberhobby kit is the same but has the gas canisters, I believe these were used for either training or transportation to the front to save fuel.

[Hinksy]

Feb 13, 2014 14:19:59 GMT -5 @snipersmudge said:

think you need at least a couple of years! a vast undertaking and something that will take some planning mate, good luck!!

Cheers guys,

BILL - big thanks for listing these variants.

D/FREAK/PETE/VLAD - Thanks for the input guys!

Basically imo the 38(t) variants all kick a$$ BUT I'm not going to go daft building every variant of everything but a late and early 38(t), the Marders, the Grille, the Hetzers etc. They'll keep me going for the bulk of the year and then I can look into building some of the more unusual or rare variants. The one mounting the Sig 33 looks excellent - I'll be looking into that one for sure.

I've pm'd Dupes and he's on the case trying to locate his FULL list that he put together for the 38(t) GB back in the FSM days. Thanks Dupes

There's a big chance to really learn a lot here too as I think a fair old chunk of research will be needed

I'm looking forward to this - especially the opportunity of two new Marder III builds!

Cheers guys,

Ben

[desertrat]

good luck with the project!! there are 13 variants in this book,no doubt there will be more!
[/
its an old book, published in 1979,( my copy is)give me a shout if you can,t find one,ok?

[Hinksy]

Feb 13, 2014 15:23:42 GMT -5 desertrat said:

good luck with the project!! there are 13 variants in this book,no doubt there will be more!
[/
its an old book, published in 1979,( my copy is)give me a shout if you can,t find one,ok?

That looks ace and exactly what I need D.R.,

A 1979 release eh - I was born in 1979! LOL!

Do you have the ISBN number off hand?

Cheers dude,

Ben

[desertrat]

yeah, 0 85242 628 3 argus books ltd, bellona publications, if you cant find one,
let me know,

[desertrat]

jumping on the 38t bandwagon, i.d just finished the tamiya marder 111 139,before i did the model T ford,

[Hinksy]

Hi D.R.,

Cheers for the book number dude - I'll see if I can track it down tomorrow on the web.

That's a Stunning Marder right there! Lovely finish and PERFECT figures!

I remember from when I built this kit before that I noticed how excelent the figures were (for Tamiya) - have your's got Hornet Heads on?

That's the one I built years back which became a test bed and is in my stash now awaiting assembly. I'll also be building the other Tamiya Marder III M unless the price of it is still silly. If I can get the Dragon one cheaper I'll be buying it but I remember what a tricky build it was. That was 2 years ago so in theory I should have a bit more skill under my belt now!

Again, lovely Marder III matey!

Ben

[wbill76]

If you're looking for books Ben, you might also want to get Panzers 35(t) and 38(t) And Their Variants (Walter Spielberger) published by Schiffer. ISBN 978-0-7643-3089-6 . It's a pretty hefty volume though, so be warned!

[deafpanzer]

DAMN! Looks like our British boy Ben will have a very busy year... this will be FUN to follow.

Do you still have that Marder III that you started a while ago?

[desertrat]

cheers ben! yes i used hornet heads,and replaced the commanders right arm, apart from that
it was straight out the box. it was a nice build but i do prefer dragon kits,
you will find that every kit you build gets better than the last, happy modelling!!
i,am going to check out your hetzer, and good luck with the book,

[dupes]

Ben - I have rooted around EVERYWHERE and have had no luck finding that file with all of the 38(t) research. You didn't do a search on FSM, did you? Wondering if I posted it up anywhere in a "GB exploratory" thread or something like that.

Can certainly help with any questions about kits that are already in my stash...looks like there are, um, "several" in there.

[bbrowniii]

Feb 14, 2014 17:44:11 GMT -5 dupes said:

Ben - I have rooted around EVERYWHERE and have had no luck finding that file with all of the 38(t) research. You didn't do a search on FSM, did you? Wondering if I posted it up anywhere in a "GB exploratory" thread or something like that.

Can certainly help with any questions about kits that are already in my stash...looks like there are, um, "several" in there.

Dupes

I thought that was something you and I had put together during one of our brainstorming sessions. I didn't think it was anything that made it to FSM. I swear I have a copy of it somewhere....

[bbrowniii]

Ben, check this link:

cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/29/t/128710.aspx?sort=ASC&pi240=2

It is to the 38(T) GB on FSM from 2010. The link brings you to page 2 - there is some good info there, but don't ignore page 1 either.

[Hinksy]

Hi guys,

Cheers for having a look for me Dupes, I'll check out bbrownii's link in a minute

Bill - Thanks for the heads-up on that book. I'll definately checking that one out dude!

Andy - You are thinking of the Dragon 'Marder III Ausf.M (Befehlsjager)' that I attempted to build about two years ago - it was a MASSIVE kit and was way out of my skill level. The kit relied heavily on PE and the Fret was HUGE! I really gave it a good go BUT it totally whupped me. The whole radio thing was crazy and it beat me handsured airbrush primer not properly adhering - it was the first time I'd used it - and the last!

It's a kit for the highly experienced modeller and even now I'd be reluctant to try it out. It did provide me with some INVALUABLE experience plus Marder III wheels and Magic Tracks, the whole assembled gun which I still one superb PE Fret packed with 38(t) stuff like clamps and straps etc plus a super detailed tool box (the one with the holes in) which I'll be using to replace the kit toolbox which doesn't have the holes and is a bit 'chunky'.

As for building that particular 'M' version I'm probably going to build the Tamiya one (below):



As for the Early Marder III That will be Tamiya - that's in the stash ready to go after the current wip Hetzer:



As for the other options - so far I'm looking at:

   

WOW - What a great selection of unique kits! The 'Flak 38(t) looks killer!

I've got the WHOLE weekend to myself so plan to hit the Academy Hetzer build hard this weekend so she's ready for painting on Monday.

Cheers fellas,

Ben