IDF M50

[rbaer]

True to form, I've popped the cork on another one before that last one is done. This time, it's a kit bash of these:

with leftover parts to be used to make the howitzer tank on this hanger queen:

The MP kit is a bit rough, so I'll use as much of the Dragon kit as possible, with the end result to be a welded-hull M50, around about the Six Day War, same as the M51 I'm almost done with. I also have bits from the Acad M51 that I just took apart (very old build, never happy with it) and a fair amount of spares.
The Dragon hull, braced to correct a visible warp and with the Acad engine access doors on, appropriate to a short-hulled diesel M50 or M51:

If I can scare up some extra Tamiya tracks, I'll use them, otherwise it's the Dragon tracks here, ugh. I'm also about to experience the
joy(?) of building Dragon's Easy Eight bogies.
I had a thought, maybe an early hull, so I test fitted Tamiya's M4 "early" hull top, and it fits. Suggestions, ideas and threats all seriously considered here.

[rbaer]

Oops.....
Tamiya hull:

And Dragon:

[wbill76]

You know you're on a roll when you've got Dicky tongue-twisted! Looking forward to seeing this Frankensherman come alive!

[rbaer]

How can you tell if Dicky's tongue-twisted?

[bbd468]

Hiya Russ, Great start on this one brotha. Im all in!

I tried google translate for Dicky's comments above.....it translated to Greek! Go figure........

Gary

[Mence]

Looks good, nice choice!

[Deleted]

Watching........................

G

[rbaer]

Gotta keep Dicky discombobulated.....
Okay, turret pics today. I thought the turret would be more fun than doing Dragon -E8 bogies, and I think I was right. I'm using the MP turret, which actually has some pretty good detail, but the fit is a bit wonky. So after lots of putty and super glue to fill gaps and add strength where I had to sand a lot, I added texture and weld beads. I've also started on the mantlet cover and cast cheek armor, appropriate to a high-bustle turret.



I couldn't help myself and palyed with this too:

Hull welds, fit the turret. I keep telling my wife I'm a poor multi-tasker.....

[dupes]

Question about your kitbash - is the DML (repopped CH Orange Box) M50 not up to snuff?

[rbaer]

Dupes, I would have used the DML kit if I had one laying around, it's quite a bit better, for the most part, than the MP kit I'm using.
Dicky, thanks! In a past life I did a LOT of welding, so I maybe spend a lot of thought about doing them in plastic. A pet peeve: with very few exceptions, welds on AFVs are GOOD. Some of the representations of welds I've seen on models by very notable people are more like what we called a "booger" weld, and wouldn't have held up to track vibration, let alone a hit by a projectile. On the flip side, some of the models of scrapped, abandoned and knoncked out tanks I've seen have had fabulously accurate and realistic welds recreated, possibly because the builders study pics of heat effects on welds, using pics of vehicles with the paint gone. My theory......
Okay, I feel better now.

[bbd468]

Hey Russ, M50's comin along real nice buddy.

I totaly understand your thoughts on welds being a welder for 18 years or so. Im totaly OCD when i do my own weld beads (Yours freakin ROCK BTW) and fashioned my own tools to do so. I will say that the welds on the T-34/85 i saw at the Patton museum a few years ago were horrendous...extremely "BOOGERY". compared to nearly every other Tank in the museum they looked as if a five year old was welding....hell, it might have been!

Gary

[rbaer]

Uproaroiusly nasty welds on later WWII Russian stuff, aren't they..... which is a big contrast to the artwork that early T34s were. There's a pic floating around somewhere in my "library" of a couple of guys welding a Sherman hull that's on a fixture, real classic example of '40s technology. They probably had retinal burns and crispy nose hairs.
Thanks for the comment on my beadery, 'preciate it.
I did a little shaping on the turret cheek last night before the putty completely hardened, but nothing pic-worthy. I also cut the tow pintle mount off, made it look torched off since the Isrealis did the same on short-hull M50 conversions, to clear the engine doors. Funny, I had the same issue in 1/35th scale.....

[wbill76]

Nice job on those weld beads Russ, got to love all the welding done to produce these Frankenshermies!

[rbaer]

Thanks, Bill. It's definitely a point of interest, especially with a wash to make them pop.

[ironhand6]

this is some tasty armor! i love a good kit bash and BTW thanks for the info about the quality of welds.i will file that little nugget away for the future.

[406 Silverado]

Very nice work so far.

[rbaer]

T'anks, guys. I'm working days all week, but should be back at it next week, which is good 'cuz I'm enjoying this one.
Have I said that before?
I need to start shopping for a barrel for this one, took a look at the kit's part and not impressed. Also need to either find out if I can buy parts (M51 tracks) from Tamiya or if I need to pop for another kit to get the tracks. Might not be a bad idea to buy another kit, since I have a set of Friul T66s, and I've wanted to do a late war -E8 for a while anyway. But then I need a Dragon early T23 turret....and I've also got a whole bunch of Magachs planned, and parts for all, and a couple of Pershings in the works..... Hmmm....

[joelsmith]

Barrel Depot makes a nice barrel, also, DEF just released one. If you need some Tamiya M51 tracks, shoot me your snail mail addy. I am replacing the Tamiya kit tracks with AFV Club indy link ones. HTH, Joel.

[Leon]

Awesome work on the welds.

[rbaer]

Joel, msg sent, thanks! And having carefully read you post, new msg is on the way. Treble thanks!
Dicky, that's like a year's worth if all my ducks stay lined up, highly unlikely. What you've done on your M3/M51 project is a year's worth for me.
Thanks, Leon. Welds are FUN! I keep saying that......

[rbaer]

I'm doing the M50 waltz now, two steps back, two steps forward......
I had some time last night (girls' night out) so I dove in. I was doing the mantlet cover retainers and noticed right away that the putty on the mantlet cover was still soft. Bad news, so it came off and a new cover was whipped up from a fresh roll of Milliput. Oddly, the cheek bulge was hard, and it was done from the exact same batch as the mantlet cover. Next was frenching in the pistol port, and I added a bit of structure under the commander's cupola. I also drilled out the main gun sight cover and used one from a spare Tamiya turret, which was much better than the MP part. The bustle grab rail gave me fits. Two attempts, one from MIG wire and one from plastic, still no joy, so I started again from plastic this morning. I would have used the MP part, but in the process of cleaning up the mold lines and flash, both substantial, I shot it into the ozone, never to be found. Enough, the pics as it sits this morning:




Also added were the welds on the mantlet extension, not because they weren't there but because I goobered them up with Mr.Surfacer.....
Argh.....

[bbd468]

Hey Russ, nice work my man! Welds look great.

Gary

[rbaer]

Dicky, your M51 should have a bead around the new bustle extension, which (IIRC) Academy did a fair job on. Israeli welding was GOOD, and the conversions were done with the tanks dis-assembled, and on jigs and fixtures. The mantlet, oddly enough, was not visibly extended to fit the 105, or if it was, the extension is under the mantlet cover.
Gary, thanks. Still meltin' metal in my dreams.

[wbill76]

Making good progress on this one Russ, it's transforming before our very eyes!

[rbaer]

Thanks, Bill.
The more I use the early hull for a "holder" for the turret while I work on it the more I'm starting to like the look of it. Something about a late cast final drive and -E8 suspension on that early hull....
I'm going to go through Mr. Gannon's book some more and the rest of my IDF references and see if I can find pics of M50s on hulls other than the A4, make a choice then. I'm getting close to wanting to start the hull, and it's time to choose, otherwise I have to start those Dragon bogies.....

[Deleted]

I'm digging all the work you are putting into this.

Here's a few shots I took a year ago. This is in a boneyard outside Kenosha Wisconsin. Unfortunately all they have there is the turret. In fact, the one mechanic didn't know this was Israeli until I told him. Seems this came by way of South America.







You get an idea of how small the turret really is when it's sitting on the ground.

G

[rbaer]

NICE pics. The mantlet extension looks like most of it was welded from the inside, with a little "rain cover" stuck on from the outside. Interesting.
And what in the world are they thinking with the commander's blade sight?
And, good shots of what a retro-fitted loader's hatch looks like.
Looks like this turret was converted from a low-bustle, one hatch unit. Very neat. Do you happen to have a shot of the left side? It would be interesting to see if it originally had a pistol port or not.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately those are all the photos I have. It does have a pistol port and at some point in time it was welded shut from the outside. Badly. LOL

I'm not sure when I will get back there, it's a 30 minute drive from my in laws house in Northern Illinois.


G

[rbaer]

Thanks, G. I was curious because I've read that the Israelis added the ports to turrets that did not have them originally. Maybe, since the turret in the pics appears to be in Lebanese blue/gray, the last users welded the door closed. That might account for the poor welding work.

[Deleted]

One thing we can say for sure when dealing with M4's and their many derivatives, NOTHING is the same. I am quite sure the guys who first built this wouldn't recognize it anymore.

BTW this place in Wisconsin is a treasure trove of esoteric armor. He has an intact M60A1 minus the ERA, a Centurian modded to look like an M1 (it was used in a movie) and a bunch of M4's from all eras. On my first trip there the owner greeted us by driving up in an M113 that he had just replaced the engine in. It was for sale and if my brother in law hadn't been there to add some sanity to the situation I would be the proud owner of a rehabbed M113.

G